I do not understand why the Wolfe Tones music is banned from Celtic Park, all fans love it and it is true Celtic FC music, all the fans sing their songs anyway. They do not speak of the Provos, just with honor of the old IRA, the one that won us independence. If they had such a problem, why could they not just edit out the Up the 'Ra if its such a big deal. Celtic Symphony was written for the club and is more Celtic than any other song
Discuss wolfe tones at celtic park in the TalkCeltic Pub area at TalkCeltic.net.
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Gil-Scott Heron
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Celtic Symphony was released during the troubles and singing "Ooh Aah Up The Ra" meant one thing and one thing only (and it had * all to do with the War of Independence). Think about the amount of * Celtic would get into if they played Wolfe Tones songs over the PA.
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Straight from the Horses' mouth, the Wolfe Tones have said this was merely to do with what the average working-class Celtic supporter, what his mentality to be, and I am 100 percent behind you when you say the * they will get for it, but what if they edited out oh ah up the ra, sure it would take the heart out of the song, but then surely the whole song would just be about the club
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No it isn't and no we don't. You are having a laugh if you think Celtic will allow the dulcit tones of the the Pro Ira group blasting out over the PA system. Here we have a club trying to get rid of the sectarian morons and you are saying they should allow the very band who feeds the morons the ammo to sing their bile. Blast out the Wild Rover from the terraces all you want, I miss that wee ditty.As for not singing about the Provos since when did the old IRA have SAM missiles in the sky? Yes the Wolfe Tones have some good Irish folk music along with the old brigade songs of 1916 and earlier but they also sing about the murdering drug dealing terrorists too. I know, I have a few albums myself sitting next to my grandfathers clock!
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Chucky Arla
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Sectarian morons??? Nae disrepect but thats uneducated *:54:
yes there are muppets that dont know what they are singing about but they are stupid rather than sectarian. They dont hae the intelligence to be sectarian FFs.
I think songs from the Rebellions are cool to sing and in no way can be used against us in cries of sectarianism but SOME songs from the more recent troubles sail far to close to the windand should remain dropped.
Mybe in 20 years time they can be sung but not when the events are in alot of our living memories. -
its never gonna be acceptable to sing "ooh aah up the ra" at paradise, those days are thankfully behind us, republicanism has nothing to do with celtic football club, never has never will so why sing republican songs at parkhead?
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Thanks, that's something I will try to remedy.
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Chucky Arla
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what planet have you just arrived from mate:rolleyes:
Funnily enough i heard republican songs over the tannoy at CP for years. Bring back Tiger Tim Stevens! the old CP Disc Jocky. The mans a legend. At the start of a game against Rangers he once, after announcing the Celtic team, uttered those famous words over the tannoy " AND NOW FOR THE HUNS" They went ballistic!
Ive seen and also bought The rebs when they were on official celtic recordings and on sale inside the celtic shop.
Oh the Tones had permission from the board to record inside and outside CP for The celtic Symphony in case you didnt know.
Add to all this the man who laid the 1st sod of shamrock turf in the centre circle at CP plus flying the republican flag over the ground and your statement is looking kind of flawed isnt it?
At "The Jungles last stand" The club had a good traditional REPUBLICAN band called "The peat diggers" on stage in the old stand. All the directors past players including some of the Lions etc were all belting out the Rebs proudly that night as well.
You know for a club thats never had nothing to do with republicanism according to some folk with selective memories, its had its fair share to do with republicans their memorabilia and their music over the past 120 years.
I think these facts kinda shoot your daft statement and that of others who spout that same fabrication right into space.
I love the way some of you lot try to rewrite history so i do:bbpd:Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2008 -
Can't ever recall hearing one myself in my 35 years at CP over the tannoy system. Care to give an example of a song.
On the subject of the Shamrock turf. When would that be? Pre Provo's I assume. Massive difference between the 1916 uprising et seq and the so called Republican movement active in the North in the 70's et seq. As for the Republican flag, I don't have a problem with it, Celtic have a proud Irish support and history and it should be allowed and flown by those who are Irish or have Irish descent.
As for the Tones recording a song at CP no harm there so long as it's not pro Provo IRA/INLA or whatever modern derivative and not on a match day.
There is no attempt here at rewriting history but there is a massive diference in supporting the IRA circa 1916 and subsequent Irish Independance from London rule courtesy of Collins, De Valera etc and that of the here and now. Singing songs about a band of so called freedom fighters bombing the * out of their own population and that of English cities is a complete no no and unacceptable at any sports venue. The Wolfe Tones do sing about it and are therefore associated with the Provos and allowing their songs to be played at CP would IMHO put us back into the dark ages and add to Scotlands shame. -
Chucky Arla
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Well in my 40 years attending CP I can clearly remember Irish soldier laddie (one of my faves), Sean South, Merry ploughboy and a good few more were all played over the tannoy before KO in the late 70s and 80s. You must have been late or mybe your hard of hearing.:86:
Even pre Tiger Tim the rebs were played before KO and at half time but not at games against the Huns as far as i can remember anyway.
BTW if you think that all our directors and players had nothing to do with Republicanism in the 70's you mus be nieve mate.
I could tell you a few stories about Grant, Mcstay farell and a good few others at some of the supporters does.
PIRA collections in green plastic collection tins called "The Green Cross" etc and Republican bands playing.
Absolutely nothing to be ashamed about as deperate times led most folk into chosing a side. This would be unacceptable today but back then it was pretty much the norm and expected TBH.
The guys statement in his post said "Celtic NEVER had anything to do with republicansm" which is completely untrue.
I'm not saying we should be singing songs from the recent troubles as i think its all still fresh in folks minds and could be inflamatory.
However songs from the rebellions should be still sung loud and proud:50:Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2008 -
Have to agree wouldnt want to hear the wolfe tones at celtic park! love the ballads myself and have gone to many a session but they should be kept away from a football ground at 3 o clock on a saturday afternoon.
No place for them -
Chucky Arla
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It depends on what song for me. If its from the struggle for the north then no its not wise. If its a traditional song like Skibereen etc then i dont see why anyone would have a problem with it.:50: -
The songs you quote can be regarded as acceptable given that at the time there was a massive off the boat Irish and 1st generation Irish Scots born going to the games - the clubs lifeblood. The songs were popular old Republican. IT HAD NO PLACE AT A SPORTS VENUE, but what is done is done and what is won is won.. I will accede to your statement that these songs were played - I recall singing them but not hearing them on the tannoy system.The subject matter of this debate however is the Wolfe Tones and their association with songs re the Provos which are not acceptable and would not be played over a tannoy
I am not naive either, I have attended dances with players present and some have come out with eyebrow raising renditions of certain songs. It's called playing to the crowd. I also drank in a bar in Coatbridge where a certain paper was offered and you couldn't refuse to buy it! I even rubbed shoulders with certain guys from the North in that pub, I didn't like the fact they were there but I didn't voice my disapproval I just went to the games waving at the Special Branch officers parked across the street. I happen to know, well used to know Peter Grant and his wife very well and Brian Mclair and his wife. Peter used to serve in that pub after the games when he was dating his now wife whose father owned it.
Anyhoo where I disagree with you is the fact that politics and sport don't mix and they have no place together. I for one would not welcome back any of the old Republican songs and certainly not those of the modern era and certainly not the Wolfe Tones. -
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I would love the Tones to be played at CP but sadly those days are gone now.
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lol...have you heard the chorus...
"Ooh aa, up the ra...
ooh aaa up the ra... (x5)
And they sang it on the centre circle in the music video.... -
Chucky Arla
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Your talking of the old Phil Cole pub mate. Ive not seen Peters wife Lorraine for years, she used to serve behind the bar on a Saturday when we were in before heading up to CP. Cracking family btw!:50:
We'll have to agree to disagree on the politics in football issue. I think our history and the songs sung throughout should always be celebrated and sung. If someone finds these songs sectarian or bigoted then THEY have the serious problem not us.
politics and religion HAVE ALWAYS been part of the fabric surrounding the club and always will be. We were never exclusively RC nor should we ever be, but we have always been left of centre within the political spectre seeking justice and fairness for all. THAT SHOULD NEVER CHANGE!
I would love our fans to adopt and sing Good Scots songs of freedom, songs like "The Haughs o Cromdale or Kiliekrankie to sing alongside their Irish counterparts.
There is nothing to be ashamed of with these songs as long as they arent used to promote hatred or violence. They are our history. "Let the people sing their stories and their songs the music of their native lands". I,m lucky to have two native lands and find it insulting that people are trying to outlaw them from public places. If folk like you dont want to join in fine, but you have no right to stop others singing and enjoying them and helping to create an athmosphere.
Be proud of our Scots and Irish heritage because you cant have a secure future without knowing the History:50:Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2008 -
That's the very pub and sadly missed. Tommy Burns took it over from Peters father in Law only to lose it a year later in a compulsory purchase order for a redevelopment. Methinks the previous owner pulled a flanker on our Tommy.
I agree on the agree to disagree. :icon_mrgreen: -
Chucky Arla
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Yep i knew that about TB. I blame * officialdom:47:
Had many a great morning and afternoon in that pub:celt_2: -
DublinBhoyJoe
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Just came across this site with a similar discussion, The 3rd paragraph has a link to this discussion
Redemption's Son: Wales v Ireland: The Wolfe Tones Are Inappropriate -
Jozo The Provo
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