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With which political ideology do you most identify?

Discussion in 'TalkCeltic Pub' started by Vertie Auld, Apr 8, 2015.

Discuss With which political ideology do you most identify? in the TalkCeltic Pub area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Higgie

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    Socialism.
     
  2. M.E.T.H.O.D MAN Straight from the slums of Shaolin

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    Radical Islamist

    * mini babybels .
     
  3. Diegan

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    Bonus points for the grammatically correct thread title. I'm a pretty staunch environmentalist so I picked that, but when it comes to governance I guess some sort of decentralized and democratic socialism.
     
  4. ThisIsGhod

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    I believe in Socialism, but what party supports it ? hardly anyone, not even labour.
     
  5. The Regime

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    Probably, the closest thing I come to is a Social Democrat. I generally think there is a case for all and I am a big believer in gradualism. Some elements of socialism have been overwhelmingly successful, the NHS, for example. The fact that it is in state control means its impetus is to make sure people don't get sick rather than just treating people who do get sick, which means you end up with massive preventive healthcare drives that keep society more healthy for longer. Of course, others were not so successful and privatization was a good thing; BT and British Rail, for example have done much better. I still believe you need to reign in man's avarice which finds such a good soil in capitalism; robust tax and sound regulation, but not over regulation, should be put in place to ameliorate social ills. It is also imperative to tackle the wild inequality gap. I remember reading this story about Amazonian tribes and a visitor was explaining to one of them how some people in society have so much and then others have so little. Suddenly, all the men of the tribe started laughing. Bemused, the western visitor asked why they were laughing. They replied that if such a thing occurred in the tribe, that a small group was hoarding all the wealth, they would just mutiny and would kill them and distribute it between themselves. Food for thought.

    The big isms and ideologies are pretty much consigned to the dustbin of history, as Trotsky would say; Anarchism, Marxism, Marxist-Leninism, they are defunct and morally and economically unjustifiable. I did find Anarchism interesting, Kropotkin and Proudhon are good reads but they ultimately feed into the vicious Utopian ideals of the late 19th and early 20th century. As I say, most of the big ideologies that were a product of the Enlightenment have been deconstructed by postmodernism and been shown to be illusory and extremely destructive. You can draw a line from the Enlightenment ideals and principles to Treblinka and Sobibor. But I suppose the big question is, can you solve modern problems without resorting to these old methods?
     
  6. Seosamh Máirtín

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    At one time or another I've had leanings with each of the options listed, but conservatism. The older I get, though, the more I am seeing some semblance of clarity in it though (as that * Churchill said).

    Mostly environmentally focused, these days.
     
  7. Elephant Stone

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    Socialism. I'm tired of right-wing arseholes recycling that bullshit phrase "socialism doesn't work."

    'Cause, you know, capitalism has served us so well, what with all the poverty and wars. And never mind that the world has pretty much never had an actual socialist government.

    Still, these are the same people that think everyone can actually become rich just by working hard. Here I was thinking that 99% of hard-working people still barely had 5% as much money as their boss does.

    Ah, but that's the beauty of capitalism, isn't it? There's no injustice here, you're only poor 'cause you're lazy.
     
  8. Vertie Auld

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    How so?
     
  9. Random Review

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    You see this is what's interesting. It isn't actually, when you think about it. Greed is a massive problem in every large society I know of; yet there are plenty of small societies in the anthropological record that don't/didn't have a problem with it. Even more telling is the fact that even in modern societies, which blatantly have a massive problem with greed, we aren't uniformly greedy. most of us aren't greedy with family and close friends, for instance. many of us aren't greedy with our wider circle of friends and close workmates. A few people aren't greedy with people from their area...etc. you see where this is going.

    There's something about large societies, throughout history, that seems to nourish and enhance our potential greed, selfishness, violence, etc.

    In a way this is good news: it means that this is a problem with our societies and not human nature. Of course the powerful will always and everywhere blame human nature for societal flaws, for obvious reasons, even though it's long been known that our nature contains both good and bad potentials.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfDnQPtijjc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfDnQPtijjc[/ame]
     
  10. Vertie Auld

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    Read Orwell's Homage to Catalonia. :50:
     
  11. TESLA Gold Member Gold Member

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    Work together instead of against each other, is that socialism or communism?
     
  12. Celtic_cologne

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    I found the system of the real existing socialism the german democratic republic had, pretty appealing. I am only talking about the school, housing, job etc. things and surely not about the wall, regime and opression of criticism.

    Problem about communism and socialism is, was and will be: it drains the one from the system that want to enjoy the luxuries that a free capitalism can create and is in terms of competition inferior to capitalism.

    So I think the social systems we have within the capitalistic systems are as good as it can get. We need to FIGHT to keep the assets and not let right wing, neo conservative * take away one by one.

    a full 100% capitalism on the other hand is not working neither(only in times of prosperity and wealth)
     
  13. Dáibhí

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    The issue there is that with advances in technology making the world ever smaller there's little chance of that changing.
     
  14. Vertie Auld

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    There's been some success in Argentina, in particular, with small communities organising, taking control of their work places and cooperating with others elsewhere, all without hierarchy.
     
  15. Dáibhí

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    That may be true, but those examples are far outweighed by the examples of the world getting smaller, technology bringing people closer together and fostering an international business environment.

    As I said, the world is changing.
     
  16. Vertie Auld

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    Another one million children are about to fall into poverty here, not to mention the devastating impact capitalism has had in Asia, Africa and Latin America. I don't think it's even close to being as good as it gets.

    Life in a socialist/communist/anarchist society needn't be spartan.

    In an anarchist society, competition doesn't exist because there's no financial advantage to be gained. Instead, people cooperate. People are still compelled to produce what's necessary and to create and advance because it's human nature. They simply don't produce to consume for consumption's sake.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2015
  17. Dáibhí

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    Yeah, I don't ever see that working. Human beings as a rule are competitive I think.
     
  18. Vertie Auld

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    In things like sports, then yes, obviously. Competition in the marketplace simply wouldn't exist though. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.
     
  19. JamesM09

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    What I don't understand is how do you drive people if there is no advantage to be gained from working harder?

    Take for example a doctor. Maybe I really want to become a doctor and that drives me, but after the first 5 years of studying and all the stress and difficulty involved, how do I motivate myself for the next 2 years and then all the pressure that comes afterward if I could have a much easier life and the same rewards if I pack it in and work in a simpler or easier job ?
     
  20. Dáibhí

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    Aye, good luck with that :50: