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Where it went wrong?

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by stubhoy07, Mar 7, 2021.

Discuss Where it went wrong? in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. bhoy81

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    There is absolutely nothing to suggest Lennon would have been a better DOF.

    He is not progressive, he would have stuck his nose in when it wasn’t needed and I’m sure the scouting team at the time got all them players you mentioned they where the ones who identified them players.

    Lennon was trying to sign * like Sol Campbell and David James when they failed we got the others.

    He would have been a horrendous choice for DOF. Imagine him trying to work with a progressive young forward thinking manager.
     
  2. s88 Gold Member Gold Member

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    I can understand this reasoning, but for me personally the moment he was given the gig full time, the majority of Celtic fans believed it was going to be a bad season. So for that reason I don't directly blame Lennon, but admittedly he could of done so much more, I'm just not surprised he didn't. I don't particularly think he's been a great manager even in his first stint.
     
  3. bhoy81

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    For me he is ruined his reputation with Celtic as a whole. With his arrogance and his behaviour this season.
     
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  4. celtic warrior

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    Lennon can take a lot of blame for this season.

    Afterall, this season meant more than any other we will likely experience now for another 10 years, should the board build something that means we actually make use of our superiority and basically own the league (they wont).

    He can take the blame because he of all people should know what this season meant and how exactly did he treat it? By not doing the basics.... Name me a modern day manager who doesn't analyse previous games or analyse matches of their opposition.

    Basic level stuff that Lennon * off because he thinks he's far greater then he is, when it's clearly evident, he's never been a good manager
     
    Sgt Neppers* likes this.
  5. PaulM1888 Gold Member Gold Member

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    Yes.
     
  6. G_portillo

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    Those blaming only Lennon are mad.
    The board are equally as culpable and if you cant see that then you never will. Incompetence set in at all levels and the signs were there to see.
     
    buchanbhoy and stubhoy07 like this.
  7. rkid

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    You say that but we only played really well a handful of times in those seasons after going invincible, we were really tough to watch a lot of those games. And the Huns are genuinely a very good team at the moment miles ahead of where we’ve been for the majority of 9 in a row. Unbeaten in the league and In the last 16 of the europa league with a chance of getting to the quarter final. A team that reaches that stage would have a very good chance of beating Rodgers teams (outside of his first season obviously)
     
  8. PaulM1888 Gold Member Gold Member

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    The Huns are professional and disciplined, man for man our side under the rat had those qualities as well but was far superior in quality and we’d have stepped up a gear if required.

    We’d have taken 3 or 4 off them at Parkhead a couple months ago.
     
    The Phoenix likes this.
  9. rkid

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    You’re probably right but I just don’t think this season came out the blue. We have been underperforming in the league for the majority of the last 10 seasons, this is just another one of those years but this time we actually had a good team against us. Players have been swanning about this season with the same attitude we’ve seen every other season we’ve ended up on about 85 points doing the bare minimum every week.
     
  10. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    Our pathetic capitulation has taken the pressure right off them this season and they're full of guys with a history of not dealing well with pressure.

    They were no great shakes at Parkhead in October and there for the taking at the beginning of January, even by our team who had chucked it. They're not the "very good team" you bill them as, they're effective but unexceptional.

    Had we won those games and not dropped other daft points from last minute equalisers and the Dubai shenanigans decimating the squad there's every chance they'd havedropped a few more points than they have once they felt that pressure. Added to that they've been the beneficiaries of double figures of potentially game-changing decisions (offside goals not flagged, penalties against not given, soft penalties given, 3 x red card offences missed in game)

    It's all hypothetical now but this League was entirely winnable, even given their form. The fact our clowns in the dugout had the race over by November and our board were locked in a state of paralysis while we watched it all unravel, should never be forgiven.
     
  11. Taz Blind Justice News Writer Gold Member

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    And @PaulM1888 also...

    Think you're being a little revisionist in not acknowledging that Lennon did have his virtues also, and recruitment was a big part of that, especially during his first tenure.

    When he inherited the squad from Mowbray it was in need of a massive overhaul. Go back and read through articles from the time, but I can tell you even from memory. Back then, Lennon was seemingly everywhere when not at Lennoxtown or on matchdays - was at lower league grounds down south, watching Hooper, identiftying Ledley, went to Greece to watch Majstorovic etc and more. While this pattern changed, once in charge fulltime, he was instrumental in getting VVD in (VVD has spoken of this numerous times) and Rogic came to Europe on like an open trial, which was ok'd by his club in Australia at the time, and impressed Lennon which lead to his signing. Or that he could work with developing some players once they had been signed, such as Mulgrew, while signed as a fullback had limitations on wider pitches, so would be better asset being deployed at CB instead, where his positional liability on the outside would not get exposed as much.

    There is something clearly wrong with his emphasis (or perhaps lack thereof) on fitness etc, something very questionable about his man-management style and sadly a disaster when it comes to actual game management - you know, the business of actually winning games - both prior to and during them, but credit where credit is due. He does have an eye for a player, and just because he was the wrong man to be given the managers job a second time, should not distract from those aspects that he does deserve credit for.

    FTR, Davie Hay was the same. Underwhelming as a manager (to say the least), despite a team that included the likes of McGrain, Aitken, McStay, McClair & Burns et al, but he definitiely had an eye for a player also, as exemplified when he was head of scouting, in identifying van Hooijdonk, DiCanio, Cadete, Stubbs & Jackie McNamara etc.

    The point I am making is that, even though Lennon was a mistake as a manager, he did have strong allies and working relationships at the executive level, and perhaps working closer with them in identifying targets etc, instead of overseeing the team itself, may well have been a better fit for him, and for the club as a whole, and perhaps we would not have ended up with the omnishambless of a cluster-you-know-what that has devolved over the past couple of years.

    It's a moot point anyhow. But just because he was a terrible tactician and manager overall does not mean that he did not have his plus points also.

    But it's time to be looking forward, not back. Yes, being retrospective can perhaps help to safeguard and ensure that we hopefully avoid what has happened again in the future, and there are factors in play here for certain, not least of which, a level of complacency that had come over the board and was allowed to ferment throughout the club as a result.
     
    Sentinel likes this.
  12. PaulM1888 Gold Member Gold Member

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    You asked if it matters where it went wrong, it couldn’t possibly matter any more in terms of where we go from this point.

    Not to acknowledge where and what was done wrong would be fatal.
     
  13. wulliebad

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    We let one of our keepers leave before the other agreed to stay and then lennon upset the players and lot the dressing room.And we keep signing player who cant get a game at other clubs. The find a gem plan has caught up with us and cost us the 10.
     
  14. MagicBallBhoy Gold Member Gold Member

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    just poor running of the club in general, interference from board chief exec with players and brendan leading to unhappy star players and brendan saying * this its toxic

    it looks to me like as long as the fans were there the players were trying for us but as soon as the pandemic and fans were dissallowed entry the players stopped giving a *

    so board and chief exec causing problems and disharmony in the camp and of course then employing a manager who is not very good and no where near the class of rodgers ability

    poor play from the custodians caused issues for us on the field
     
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  15. The Phoenix Gold Member Gold Member

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    This Hun team were unceremoniously dumped out of the league cup by St Mirren. Aye, cracking side.

    Rodgers won 7 trophies out of 7, or 8 out of 8 if you include the league title in his last season.

    He'd have sent Gerrard packing without breaking sweat.
     
  16. celtic warrior

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    In the long run, with actual semi decent funding, Rodgers would have * this league no bother.

    All this huffing and puffing over signing guys like McGinn and here's Lennon given how many millions to bring in Barkas, Duffy, Ajeti, Kenny, Laxalt, Turbull, Klimala, Soro.

    Even then, despite showing they should be playing, Turbull and Soro had to wait how long to play?
     
  17. James Gold Member Gold Member

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    Going from Rodgers to Lennon on full time basis told me all I needed to know at that point about the boards aspirations. When Rodgers left even with the side arguably underperforming compared to where it had been previously the ten should have been a foregone conclusion but mismanagement at every level has lead us to where we are now. From poor decision making at boardroom level to poor recruitment to a dinosaur manager who was tactically inept added in on top of the jobs for the bhoys ideology it was always going to be a recipe for disaster.

    The thing that angers me more than anything is that it was all so preventable and yet again the vast majority of the support could see what needed to be done but a clearly inept board couldn't
     
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  18. Taz Blind Justice News Writer Gold Member

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    As much as we all hate to do it, have to give credit where credit is due. So far sevco have gone undefeated in the league this season, are still alive in Europe and the one domestic game that they have lost that you characterized as 'unceremoniously dumped out of the League Cup' was very decent game of football that ended 3-2 with StM scoring with the proverbial last kick of the ball to knock them out - hardly the definition of 'unceremoniously dumped'.

    Unceremoniously dumped is us getting our * handed to us 0-2 by Ross County on our own pitch in a game where we had 75% of the ball but made just 4 attempts on target, and they made 6 with what little they had. Unceremoniously dumped is the meek surrender of the league title in the first week of March. The earliest that has happened in more than a century, and this when we had an achievable goal of 10IAR in sight and coming off the back of 4 consecutive domestic trebles.

    Not saying they are perfect, but you have to give credit where credit is due. Put it this way - based on this season - and ONLY this season - how many Celts would be in a combined Glasgow side? Not many, if any - and it genuinely pains me to say it. :(
     
  19. McChiellini.. Gold Member Gold Member

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    They obviously deserve to win the league. That much is obvious as they've been the best side in the country this year..

    They still have had a lot of help from official's though. Even our couple of game's against them Morelos should've been off in both alone..

    I'm no gonna go through loads of game swinging decisions they've had this season as it's been done to death but it's plenty. No penalties against or red's in a season so far. Unbelievable..

    Would you expect us to have many player's in a combined team this year? If we're going on quality then I still believe we have plenty that would get in their side....but we've collapsed for a whole host of reason's, they've closed the gap and are better set-up than us. It's hard to just say this season in isolation when we've been run and set-up so shabbily..

    4 player's straight away walk in to their side in Ajer, Turnbull, McGregor and Edouard..

    Keeper and the fullbacks they have sewn up. We don't even have a decent keeper. Have no right back of our own and our left back is a backup option at best..
     
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  20. Smarty1888

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    The worst thing is it’s totally self inflicted, coz they’re not a great team. The difference wi them is they’ve already got plans/players for next season and will spend money they ain’t got, and we’ll f*k about as per every other season, seeing whether we qualify for Champions League or Europa before buying sh*te that no one else wants and selling a main asset. The buck stops at Lawwell (penny pinching), Lennon (no tactical knowledge) and Hammond (Blind as a bat obviously, with some of his signing recommendations).