The Offensive Behaviour at Football & Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill

But Orange walks continue to pollute our streets. Until they tackle that, Sectarianism will thrive.

 

the fact is as welcome as any new legislation may be, there have been existing laws and powers to clamp down on sectarian singing since Jack McConnel was First Minister yet they have rarely if ever used them; it may be the law but as the last "sectarian" law has shown it requires police to actually do their job and start wading into crowds of thousands if need be rather than * it whilst moaning about their budget problems (as everyone is at the moment, get used to it) and letting those who sing such illegal songs away with it

 

Exactly, they already have power, there already are laws, but when these things are going on it's up to the police to go into a crowd and make arrests so it just doesn't happen, be it because they're * scared the crowd might turn on them or they just don't care and turn a blind eye, I seriously doubt this will ever be enforced.

Really have to start punishing the clubs (like UEFA have with Rangers), it's the only way to get fans attention, and it'll force the clubs to act and rid themselves of fans that won't stop.

 

Sad that it has had to come to this to stop grown men calling each other names at a game of football.

 

They can make all the laws in the world, but unless the police implement them, it its pointless. The police already had the powers under the beach of the peace laws and have choose to turn a deaf ear and a blind eye to what was happening.
The online monitoring is a good idea, but the police keep complaining the don't have a money to police effectively - so is it going to happen and how bad to comments need to be to attract their attention.

 

there will be serious issues which will come from this. lawyers are going to make a fortune defending and winning on behalf of clients

some of this is very vague and it has to be inorder for them to drag us into it, however every single fan who is charged with "sectarian hate crimes" in relation to rebel songs or the national anthem of another eec country (remember that the dear people of this land are offended by the national anthem of Ireland, and people in glass houses amongst our own support who are equally mock offended by the English national anthem, just remember that folks, we cant have it all our own way without looking silly) will fight to clear their name. The damage will have been done with careers ruined and family names in the press, but in a court of law, unless that court is corrupted and has no grasp of the law that the jumped up dump council hut in Edinburgh comes up with, and the actual laws of the land that are enforceable without challenge, those who challenge will win their case.

for the huns and the overwhelming anti catholic feeling in this country the law is straightforward. the songs they sing make specific reference to hating, killing, eradicating a creed and also, in some cases, a race of people. That is clear cut simple and easily eforced. Anyone with ears and a brain that can compute the sound waves penetrating their skull can clearly determine the hate and the evil that these people foul the atmosphere with.

that takes care of everyone but us, thats where the wee knuckle crunchers are sitting * themselves thinking up ways to get us.

the rebel songs take care of themselves, there is no reference to hate of a specific race or creed and cannot be deemed sectarian, but causing offense to an inbred imbecilic idiotic freak show is another matter. If it is called sectarian then all anthems must go, thats that debate finished!

the add ons to the songs "provisional wing" etc and inserting "and the ira" to the WIllie Maley song and the Fields, have to stop, for no other reason than they ruin * excellent songs in the first place which we love and the dumplings in this country hate, there is no place for them and they should stop. These add ons defeat our argument about the rebel songs in the first place.

Whether or not these songs have a place in 2011 in a football stadium, particularly ours, which welcomes all races and creeds is a matter for the collective conscience of the support. I would leave them at home to be honest, we have enough cracking songs in our repetoire to lift the roof off paradise, and show up the rest of the motley crew in this country for what their song sheet consists of.

If for some perverse reason you found yourself charged with sectarianism based on the singing of a rebel song (as long as there were no add ons or outright The I The I The I R A as we heard at tynecastle) you could argue that the offence taken against the original freedom fighters songs that are sung are in honour of men whom the regent of this coutry recently stood to attention to in the garden of remembrance in Dublin, and that the founder members in their majority were non catholic. That is the major point here, the dimwits in this country equate things as follows, Celtic - Catholic - Irish - IRA - Sectarian, thats it, in their shallow minds there is no swaying from this belief.

We have to be on guard from some of our loose cannon teenagers who fancy themselves as saturday night rebels (i was once one of them myself) who want to define Celtic and their support of celtic with republicanism. This means nothing to a growing number of fans and the vast majority of the team, and lest we forget, we are there to support the team - on to victory!

so for us it is simple, no provisional add ons and we are clean, for them, the minute they open the doors to their stadium we know what goes on, my * you ought to hear them on the underground, they are done bang to rights. It wont happen. They will seek out individuals to allow the clubs to be embarrassed enough to ban them and shilly shally on a statement about unacceptable behaviour. We have some real didiies in our support and we will get done for some outright stupid bigoted filth that some drunk * comes out with, that is unavoidable and hopefully will deter some of the other fannies from doing so in future.

my concern is how they prosecute 20000 who indulge in illegal chanting who are then praised by the justice minister, how do they deal with that?

be vigilant bhoys and ghirls, but the real law of the land will defend us, only if the police and courts are strong enough to prosecute the majority who have the real problem in this country.

 

Bigotry in Glasgow is ancient. When it was made legal to be Catholic in the uk in 1830 one of the few British cities to experience riots was Glasgow which at that time had little or no Catholics living there. (And no Catholic schools)Artur Boruc deliberately wound up Rangers fans by blessing himself at Ibrox. Celtic were recently linked to Cov irish keeper westwood who always blesses himself. If he had joined and blessed himself at ibrox there would have been the usual outcry of provocation from Rangers fans. As Celtic fans quite enjoy Celtic player Izzy's protestant celebrations, my challenge to anybody who supports Rangers is to my explain to why in 2011 they would find such a gesture as a wind up. I will willingly bet my mortgage that not one will direstly deal with the points I have made. Resorting to wanton violence in the search for independance of your homeland is wrong, but the basic desire to have your homeland back has a certain justice to it, just hating a minority group for their religious beliefs is wrong. In Germany they have a lower leaugue team set up by turkish immigrants. In mainland europe you would never have a team that said we hate turkish immigrants and we will ban them for playing for us for the first 100 plus years of our existence. Is there a Rangers fan out there who can deal directly with any of the points I have raised without the usual 'we are both as bad as each other' line?

I have written this sort of post quite a few times on newspaper websites and not one rangers fan has ever attempted to deal with the points I raise. Any comments?

 

good post mate

 

I had this reply on aol. So over 100 years of bigotry is wiped out by one bloke in the 1950's.

Excuse me but there was at least one Catholic who played for Rangers under their 100 years existence(in the 50s) and what is a Protestant celebration by the way.Catholicism was rife in early Scotland not banned but we cant have the religious groups running the country as the Bishop of M otherwell still tries to do and the Minority cannot rule the majority either.

I won't be giving this bloke my mortgage money as he does not tell me why blessing yourself is a wind up.

 

The easily offended have got what they wanted.

 

Be carefull what you wish for ehe. got us by the plums .

 

These new rules only apply to going to ,being at, or going home after selected games,..is this correct ,not sober enough to go through all the details.

 

^^This..

5 years for carrying a knife and 5 years for singing a song someone MIGHT be offended by FFS. What's next, illegal to swear in a football ground? Illegal to shout too loud?

A lot of good banter between Celtic and Rangers will be getting destroyed with knee * laws like this. Let people goto a football match and shout abuse at each other for 90 mins then all go home again.

Reading more into that bill you could get upto 5 years soon for as much as forwarding a joke text with any religious references. (Although if you send it from anywhere but Scotlad you'll be fine!)

 

Sectarianism, according to one definition, is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion or factions of a political movement. (copied from wikipedia) not the best source of reference but the Scottish government is proberly using a similar definition. I have been told that this is the breakdown. (still need to double check though)

- Religious Sectarianism: Which if I'm right means a ban on the words * and hun. It also bans attitudes that believe they are always better than someone else on virtue of being catholic or protestant, the idea that all catholics or protestants (in football surely celtic and rangers fans) are homogeneous (ie: typical rangers fans believe X and typical celtic fans believe Y) and bans attitudes that you are better than someone else or another group in society not because of what you are but because of what you are not.

- Political Sectarianism, I think is being cracked down on where there is a situation of hatred and insults over "Scottish Identity" (surely in the SPL) so for example: Scottish and Unionist (loyalist, orange) or Scottish and anti British (anti-unionist, anti monarchy) are not synonymous. No group is to be excused for their views (if not conducted in the correct manner) or attacked because of their views (provided they are conducted in the just manner.) (which I guess the SNP will decide)

Religious and non religious persons or groups will also be arrested if caught posting homophobic or racist comments (he's a poof, *, unnatural behavioural etc) online. There will be no religious or non-religious excuse for homophobia, racism (maybe sexism) that will be accepted.

Scottish football in short will be about the ball on the pitch not the fans in the ground. Scottish society will be about pluralist tolerance and unnity against sectariain, homophobic and racist attitudes. Ending Scotlands shame and producing a society where catholic and protestants (and everyone else) are tolerant of eachother, gay rights, womens rights and multi-culturalism (that's the theory away)

 

Mikey, Hun does not mean Scottish Protestant despite pathetic attempts to try to insinuate that it does. Fans of every other team in the land refer to them as the Huns, does that mean all of these fans are bigots? Hun means rangers fan tim means Celtic fan

If a Hun insists that it mean Scottish Protestant then why do other Scottish Protestants call them Huns?

The original Fenians and founders of the ira were mostly non catholic! So that doesn't stack up either!

 

Yip, it's ridiculous.

For example, Craig Thomson got a slap on the wrist for being a beast. If he had started singing an "offensive song" then the punishment would have probably been more severe! You couldn't make it up.

 

If the new rules say so then yes it does.

 

Found this on nil by mouth.

"Offensive sectarian language is still used in Scotland on a daily basis, with abusive terms such as “Hun” and “Orange *” being used negatively against Protestants (or those perceived to be) and others such as “*” and “Tim” used negatively against Catholics (or those perceived to be). This reinforces religious and racial stereotypes as well as fuelling the divisions and conflict between the denominations and poeple of no religious denomination."

http://nilbymouth.org/history/

bottom line: it doesn't matter what you think the word means or what it used to mean or even if it is a force of habit. If someone reports you or you are found using it online then once this crackdown is up and running you will get 5 years in jail. (I heard a rumor they will access your emails aswell to check up on your activies but not sure if that is true)

Also remember this applies to homophobia, racism, political and religious sectarianism in the other forms I wrote about above aswell, not just in football but in day to day society and interaction. At any club, in any city, in any bar, in any home on the pc in Scotland.

 

Im for anything thats gonna get things back focussed on football. To stop our manager, players and decent citizens being targeted either physically or online in a sickening agenda of sectarianism, racism and abuse.

I dont think the vast vast majority of Celtic fans have anything to worry about. Despite the actions of those who are against us last season, namely the Huns and the Edinburgh Huns, our restraint was admirable.

Our halo may have slipped a few times but we have brought nothing but pride to our club, Seville for example and numerous other excursions. In Scotland our exemplar behaviour is ignored largely by a media that is only interested in succulent lamb.

So I say, bring it on, these laws are addressed at one side of the city.

Im looking forward to a better season. They clowns down Govan way wont be able to behave themselves and will drag their club from the gutter to the sewer and beyond. As they do every season. We just need to continue supporting our club in the same vein as we always do.

 

Let's wait until

a, This is enacted. It's still a bill just now.

b, It is tested in a Court.

c, It is appealed to the European Court.

There is no way that 5 years imprisonment for calling someone a hun or a tim is a proportionate response by the state. There are human rights issues here. The Scottish Executive can't just stick people in the jail for years for calling people names.