Suicide

Of course it is! Doesn't mean that it's wrong. It's still selfish though.

 

I know its selfish, but if you break it down to different types of selfishness.
terminally ill, depression, simply not wanting to live anymore.

Its the less selfish of the 3.
Its hard to put in words, but you know what i mean?

 

I wouldn't class both as selfish, nor do I class suicide as that either, although I do understand why you might class it as such

 

That's why I just said suicide is selfish. Regardless of circumstances it is.

 

I totally understand what you mean mate - and I ain't judging the person.

But ultimately, which you agree, it is a selfish act.

 

Really? So the person stealing the bread isn't think he needs to do it for his own needs; for his family? Not thinking about the other person who he's stealing the the bread from?

Say the bread is the last thing in the world that the person he's stole it off; the last thing that was sustaining him to keep him alive. This man has stole it to take care of his family, he doesn't care about the other person's circumstances. He's fine, his family are fed. He has the a great need and he has fulfilled it and I would never, ever criticise a person in that position for doing so but it is still selfish. It's a detrimental effect on another so that he can have his needs fulfilled. That's what it boils down to.

 

Here is a question I put to you then about suicide being a selfish act .... Bobby Sands was he being selfish going on hunger strike for political status? As this could be interpreted as suicide.

 

"Selfish - adjective
(of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one’s own personal profit or pleasure"

Debatable whether suicide could qualify as selfish really. To be honest I've always been of the opinion it's selfish in a sense that you cause a lot of grief to your family/friends.

These debates can get very heated because it is really subjective, just like abortion and euthanasia etc.

What I can say is that I really do have the utmost sympathy for anyone connected to someone who commits suicide or else feels the need to commit suicide themselves, must be a horrible and frightening state of mind .

 

Of course it is.
Basically the conversation boils down to is it justified sometimes.

 

And that is a full different kettle of fish that never really has a definitive answer.

 

Think that is something we can all agree on

 

Exactly what my definition of selfish would be
Therefore this is the reason I do not deem suicide a selfish act

 

I don't think you're getting Devlin's and my point about selfishness, and selfish acts being two different topics.

Was Sands selfish? How could he have been selfish when he wasn't giving his life for anything other than a country's cause.

Could people have viewed him as being selfish? Absolutely. Have a watch of the scene between him and the priest in the movie "Hunger" - I'm pretty sure the priest alludes to it.

 

Off topic, but that got me thinking about a documentary i seen a while ago about these Russian scientists during WW2
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlovsk_Experimental_Station"]Pavlovsk Experimental Station - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Basically starved themselves to death to save plant seeds, while surrounded by them, never ate any of them.
One of the ultimate acts of unselfishness?

 

Of course Bobby Sand's eventual death was a selfish act. It was a decision he had made completely to further his cause.

It's a funny one though because he gave his life for others essentially. Thinking it would help a lot of people. However his decision to do it was still selfish in the fact that he consciously left a grieving family behind to further his own cause.

 

Yes I have seen that scene and hence my question about it being a selfish act.
It's simply the case my definition of selfish is different and in the grand scale of the whole suicide epidemic it is really minuscule I know so the real debates should be on ways of solving such a problem than what to label it i suppose

 

That is * horrific.

 

* * never heard of this before!

 

That's us getting into a whole different subject though - i.e. what is classed as suicide.

You gave me a scenario there with Sands - here's one for you to think about mate:

A guy walking down the street - sees a kid in the street and a bus coming straight at him. Guy runs over at full speed with seconds to go, manages to push the kid out of the way, but ends up being killed in the process.

Was that man selfish? Could it be somehow seen as a selfish act?

 

Basically anything any human being does will have some selfishness, no matter how unselfish it seems.

Mad isnt it.