Shame on the SNP

Tbh mate I genuinely get the impression you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
How are you defining Loyalism?

What about ROH which is one of the most contentious songs but makes no explicit reference to or mentions the IRA is that banned or not in your mind?

 

Also which IRA are we talking about pre 1950s the provo's the INLA dissidents?

 

Ulster Loyalism.

Despite there being significant differences between factions throughout time, I'd have to say that we would have no choice but to ban all references to the IRA if it meant we could finally work to heal the sectarian divide in Scotland.

Some of the additions are questionable, and I don't fully agree with the bill in its current form, but I do agree that something must be done.

My intentions are meant to be good, I dream of a more united Scotland, one that we can live with our different views without threat of violence or slander. One without Orange Walks or "Ooh Ah up the 'RA". All a bit of a pipe dream though, but one I will hold on to.

 

Your intentions I believe is to eradicate are Irish part of the club because it doesn't suit your own agenda of Scottish Nationalism which you would rather see it replaced with the IRA are gone it is a historical organisation it poses no threat to anybody no different from any other historical army

 

How do you feel about the soldier song getting played in celtic park when Ireland play scotland?

 

Do you have a problem with Scotland or something?

 

No problem at all I have a problem with censorship is all

 

The definition of sectarian is far wider than religious bigotry. People often dont realise that. Sectarian 'dived into factions' means anything which divides the population into factions on a serious issue to a degree it is likely to cause violence or tension. It can be religious or political or a bit of both.

The reality is few if any modern Celtic songs are religiously bigoted except where the word protestant is used or implied - which I think is very rare in our songs these days. However, the IRA songs are 100 percent politically sectarian with bells on and clearly fit the true meaning of sectarian which is much broader than bigotry.

In a city like Glasgow or in northern Ireland where there are large groups who take opposite views in the Irish question then of course it is sectarian in a political sense.

The problem IMO is that the IRA songs refer to stuff that some other guys dad or granddad across the road found himself on the other side of the conflict. I am not making a moral judgement on the IRA but there is no doubt that the republican-loyalist division is about as politically sectarian as it gets as when found in Glasgow its a within-one-country/population factional division.

The other things that are a problem about IRA songs are

a. They clearly or implicitly refer to the backing of violence or groups known to have been involved in it.

b. The violence continued until about 20 years ago so several generations of a family could be living and in earshot who could have found their way on either side of the conflict due to family having moved to Scotland from a tim or prod Irish background or soldiers etc etc. Basically its too soon and geographically Scotland is a place with an ususually high amount of people who have emotional investment in either republicanism or loyalism. Basically its the wrong place. #

c. They can easily be seen as anti-British or Britain hating which in itself could be defined as a form of bigotry. While many people are reasonable and have a more sophisticated nuanced view, there are people who are essentially highly bigoted against Britain/Britishness.

Now I dont need a history lesson here and am anti-union myself but people have to be realistic that factionalism in a republican-loyalist conflict in a city with more republicans and loyalists than any major city outside Ireland is going to be sensitive and does fall into the definition of political factional sectarianism.

There was also clear a religious aspect to this too - not that it is based on religion but the vehement people on the two sides do have a tendency to fall into two religious divisions in terms of heritage. I dont need a list of exceptions to this or athiests - the trend is clear.

The other thing is of course we cannot lose the sight of the fact that this is Britain and, much though I would like to see the union end, the majority just voted to stay part of Britain so songs against Britain are capable of being taken as an attack on their own British patriotism.

Basically in a nutshell in Scotland at a football ground republican and loyalist stuff is playing with fire given that people of both persuasions are fairly plentiful in Scotland and are likely to be in earshot. There is nothing wrong with folk songs about the struggle with Britain but its just the wrong place to do it.

In summary-context is everything.

 

I know what Loyalism is i'm just not convinced you do. Using the link you provided the first paragraph intrinsically links loyalism to the British monarchy. So youaresaying songs like GSTQ and,Rule Britannia should be illegal ?

I have no doubts about your bona fides or that you are genuine in wanting to see a different Glasgow for your child to grow up in. I just think you are hopelessly misguided and all over the place in how you think this can be brought about. If songs aren't Sectarian then they aren't Sectarian and rather than worrying about public perception. They public perception should be challenged

 

about 600 years and dont that DOES matter. Noone gets hot under the collar about agencourt or Waterloo today but stuff within the last 100 years is still easily within family memory and its a lot more raw.

Also Scotland the brave is not a song that breaks Scots into factions the way Irish republicanism and loyalism do.

PS-Its a really STB is a really * song. There are many many better ones.

 

Gunt : using that definition of sectarian. Every singlefootball match in they world is Sectarian as it splits they fans of team a v team b

Sheepshagging *
In your Liverpool slums
Soft Southern *
Dirty Northern *

Are all sectarian.

 

The history of violence in IRA songs mixed with the well know fact that the republican-loyalist conflict triggers Scotlands worst hotheads sets it apart from a peaceful indy movement full of kids, grannies etc. The only thing they have in common is that they are to break from the UK. Otherwise the Scottish indy movement is incredibly different from republican history

 

History wise scotland was violent to but nowadays the republican movement is the exact same as the Scottish movement it's just about make the country better then hating the other side

 

Why would you see a moral distinction between those organisations?

 

No not really just incase it was an other case of pre 1950s IRA is Ok

 

Worth noting that we didn't endure what the Irish did, so to hold us up as some kind of example to the Irish is maybe a bit misguided (don't know if that's what you intended, to be fair).

 

Ah, okay.

 

No sectarianism is about factionalism within a population on a SERIOUS issue likely to cause heat and even violence. Your list is just panto slagging type stuff. You know fine that its a totally different thing.

 

Scotland got the same treatment as Ireland. The difference is,is that it Ireland went through it longer and very recently. Whereas Scotland went through it twice but with a few centuries in between. Nothing within anyone alive's lifetime.