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Potential Manager Suggestions?

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by CountyDownFaithful, Nov 5, 2020.

Discuss Potential Manager Suggestions? in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Random Review

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    We're never going to attract a Benitez, but why aren't we making our own top-class managers from young prospects? Ajax do it. Without checking, I bet the likes of Benfica and Porto probably do it. We should have the structures in place to develop young managers in exactly the same way as the managers themselves develop young players.
     
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  2. Wee Baldy

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    Yeh, Daniel Farke loves fast free flowing football but his Norwich side lost a helluva lot of goals which seen them relegated but good shout though
     
  3. R u n e

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    We don't have wiggle room to bring managers though the ranks. A club like us will always need managers who are ready to win now.

    We don't need a new manager yet anyway. We should stick with Neil and get behind him. We aren't a club like Rangers who chop and change managers all the time
     
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  4. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    Kennedy looks to be the one they hope to do it with, but for me he has not been around or experienced enough (never heard of him going to coaching camps like you would have heard Deila doing). I'd worry it is more a cheap option rather than building a great and varied backroom staff to help support these sort of ex-players come managers.

    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/celtic-glasgow/mitarbeiter/verein/371

    For an example, this is our staffing - I am aware that John Currie is missing from that list, but that's it. As far as I can tell, very limited in numbers, experience, and diversity (in an experience sort of sense, more diverse styles of coaches)

    Compare to Ajax:
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam/mitarbeiter/verein/610


    Porto:
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-porto/mitarbeiter/verein/720

    Benfica:
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/benfica-lissabon/mitarbeiter/verein/294

    PSV:
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/psv-eindhoven/mitarbeiter/verein/383
    (big Jan chief scout in there)

    Really if we want to develop young manager talent, we need to * support them, as you say other clubs like these are able to do so.
     
    charlietully and Random Review like this.
  5. Breathnach67

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    I know you’re on about the coaching aspect and you’re completely right in what you say. But you also reminded me that we work within an almost equal budget and have a similar sized fanbase to Porto, and they constantly get to the last 16 or quarters of the champions league. Not to mention their scouting, transfer dealings and youth development are vastly superior to ours. The same can be said for the other 3. But Porto is just an example that stands out because it’s a club that’s comparable to Celtic in City that is in many way comparable to Glasgow.
     
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  6. jafa

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    "Yeh, Daniel Farke loves fast free flowing football but his Norwich side lost a helluva lot of goals which seen them relegated but good shout though"

    But was that through bad coaching or just the players he was working with due to their low budget compared to the rest. Didn`t do too badly getting Puke on fire.
     
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  7. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    It's been a couple years since I looked, and googling on the phone is a pain, but from my quick understanding and memory, teams like ajax, Porto, psv etc are all within our level for revenue income. It then comes down to how we spend that money - poorly it would seem.

    Psv sit around 95million with cl money of 32mill (taken from a couple seasons ago from my googling). Ajax and Porto I am sure go between 100-120million revenue (this I need to clarify more recently).

    Benfica will have just went up a level, with some big big transfer deals generating a hefty income.

    Under the Rodgers effect, plus champions League, we was posting revenues of 102million. as low as 54million under the deila years with no Europe on the back of that years revenue and the stands being quiet.

    Point is, financially, if the club pull their weight as and when the fans do, there is no reason we shouldn't be looking to be on a par with these clubs. This is the level we should be at.

    Not Cluj, ferencravos, Sarajevo, Prague, that's (no disrepect to them) levels below us.

    With the Adidas deal and the fans spending power, the uptake on season tickets even during the pandemic etc, the board have been given plenty from the fans side of things, they need to keep to their side of things to make sure we stay around the £100mil mark (out with Covid) and not fall back down to the £50-60million mark, which is looking likely.

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  8. littlekennie

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    I’m just pointing out he has no desire to be here


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  9. Foley1888

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    I think the biggest difference from us to a Porto, Benfica, Ajax or PSV is their squad and player management. Another is their focus on technical ability.

    These teams do things like bring through young players consistently and they seem to have a pipeline of players who slot in to their formation and style, sell players when they are at peak value and don’t try and keep players who are looking to move on, they also try to strengthen or replace top players in their squad regardless. The thing we will struggle to match is with perception, in that big clubs will pay more for their players than ours due to the leagues they are in.

    Of late we seem to miss opportunities, we rarely strengthen from a position of strength, we often hold on to players who have a high value too long and end up selling for less than their peak value e.g. Dembele, Eddy will be like that, Ntcham, Ajer and Christie may also fall into that category. We don’t bring through many youth prospects, one a season if we are really lucky and it doesn’t look like they are automatically ready to slot in or even sign enough like a Frimpong scenario. They clubs also don’t tend to rely on loans they would rather bring someone through or sign their own.
     
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  10. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    100% agree man.

    It's all to do with the outlook and the direction the clubs want to go in.
    Sure these clubs are selling for more than us, but even with that inconsideration, out revenues aren't massively different (ie, if we sold for similar price we would be on a par or more in revenue terms).

    The whole thing at Celtic needs ripped up, how we * this up after Rodgers came in is beyond me.
    I know he took 4 or 5 members of staff, but we really should have replaced them with an equal counter part and outlook to modern day football and how to run a football squad.

    As you say, their ideals are so much different in how and when they sell, they know what their youth conveyor belt looks like and seasons in advance they know who's getting a shot and when.

    This is something the manager can implement in part, but it does need a fuller club vision.
    The issue I have currently is that Lennon isn't looking remotely like he wants to act in this way, at all. More suited to just going through the motions, the bare minimum it would seem after some of his comments.

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  11. Wee Baldy

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    I think that, more often than not, they piled men forward leaving gaps at the back which teams exploited. Football pundits down south often highlighted this and said that although it was good to watch, the manager would have to change his tactics in order to survive in the Premiership. They didn't and are now playing in the Championship.
     
  12. Breathnach67

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    mate, that’s exactly the way Ajax, Benfica and Porto operate too. They all need tangible success every year or the season has been deemed a failure. They’re clubs working in a very similar dynamic to us.
     
  13. Senna s1979 Gold Member Gold Member

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    They don't really. Portos current coach Conceicao would be considered a failure by anyones standards (sackings by Braga and Guimaraes). He led them to their first title in 5 years and a double the following season.
    If that was us we'd riot if we hired a young(ish) Scottish manager who had been sacked from Dundee Utd and Hamilton Accies :56:
     
  14. freitassen

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    In between that, Sergio Conceição went to Nantes in France and had a very good stint. He also had a big name as a player. He didn't drop at Porto out of nowhere

    Also we need to agree the gap between Porto and Braga, and even Vitória de Guimarães, is much smaller than the gap between us and scottish teams, nevermind those you mentioned. Braga is consolidated as Portugal's 4th best force and Vitória is a traditional team usually at the middle of the table but with potential for more.

    Finally, the standard of coaching in Scotland is awful and we can see it by the SPFL teams campaigns in Europe or this glorious national team of the moment. The same doesn't apply to Portugal. They have a reputation for coaching skills and development of talent and there are portuguese coaches spread all over the world. No sane, self respecting team outside of the british isles would approach the Hamilton coach.
     
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  15. freitassen

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    We do try to do this, in an extremely incompetent way. We pile up young players, most of them sourced from the UK, the worst market of the world in cost X benefit, without worrying about their position, style or how we are going to work their way up through the club ranks, merely by compulsion thinking only of the re-sale value and not about how useful they can be to the team right now or soon. We can list a few of them here right? Okoflex, Luca Connell, Lee O'Connor...

    Signing those two american players without thinking about the small matter of the work permit, and who will probably never play a game for us is the best example of this. It is so incompetent that this is criminal.
     
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  16. Jeremie Frimpong

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    It's a shame, really, because, historically, there is a good argument that Scotland has produced more great managers per capita than any other country.
     
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  17. freitassen

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    That is the worrying thing. They don't. Neither for players, for managers, nothing. Remember how we got Scott Bain? We needed a goalkeeper out of sudden and had a few days to act. You would think any professional team or kid playing Football Manager would have a shortlist for those. We didn't, we were limited to approaching SPFL goalkeepers that we saw week in week out because there was no scouting. We went for Trevor Carson, which is not just a bang average SPFL level goalkeeper but also a hun with a foot in the UVF. Worse than that, we heard a no. Then we went for Bain because he was in that very weird transfer situation. We would probably have played with an outfield player on the goal if we heard a no from Bain. No names of goalkeepers from abroad, kids from EPL who could come in a loan, nothing. That situation really exposed how the club scouting works.

    For managers? Well, Lawwell bragged (he didn't admit it, he bragged around, as if it was something cool) that not just he had no such shortlist, but he ignored applications of guys who actively contacted the club without even looking at who they were. A team can always lose a manager at short notice, they can be approached by another team, can be killed in a car crash, whatever. But the last time this happened with ended up with an equivalent of Scott Bain of the managers: a guy that was already known, freely available and cheap.

    I have sadly absolutely no expectation that the board has such list or is even trying to make one now the need might arise.
     
  18. freitassen

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    Ah yes, I remember hearing this when I was young. Even back in Brazil. But now this seems to have changed completely. Even the guys from SPFL that looked "promising" and went to very minor english teams didn't do well and return. The most successful of them was Alex Neil at Preston.
     
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  19. Breathnach67

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    Can't think of any one country that is churning out great managers anymore, maybe Italy??? Portugal for it's population produces a lot of good coaches worth their salt, that actually goes for the amount of world class players they produce too. Phenomenal football culture.
     
  20. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    I know it may seem a tad reactionary to Thursday night, but a few of us in a group chat had been discussing it for a day or so before -
    Steve Clarke till the end of the season, NOW, would be ideal.

    Years back, I would have taken him after Mowbray disaster and even when Lennon was on the way out the first time. Now, he has somewhat found his style and ability and I do not believe he is the guy to take us forward long term. However, he is the sort of guy to come in and sort out the * we have right now and get this season back on track. He will organise the side in to a sensible style and sort that backline out, would see us go on a good run and be hard to beat.
    Come summer, go out and get a much higher calibre of manager.

    Best part, he can stay at the Scotland gig as well, allowing his backroom staff to step up in the Scotland setup, then fall back on to it once this season is done.