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"Offensive chanting"

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by Rude Bhoy, Jul 26, 2011.

Discuss "Offensive chanting" in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

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Mystic Penguin

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TAB said: ↑

However, are we only allowed to chant it during that song because it's a well known part of the lyrics? I don't think so, it's not illegal and the only people that find it offensive are the same people that think we're tattie picking scum. Anyway, this argument has been done to the death.

We are not the club that has a problem with fans chanting from the stands.
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Spot on.

Mystic Penguin, Aug 3, 2011

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Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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Mystic Penguin said: ↑

Its better than voting anonymously because your opinion on forum poll counts for nothing. Whereas at a game your opinion would at least exist.
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Then doesn't the silence for some of the songs not count as someone's choice to abstain from singing those songs?

These days, I doubt you could get the entire stadium singing along to a song like BOTOB.

Callum McGregor, Aug 3, 2011

#442
Mystic Penguin

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Minty said: ↑

Then doesn't the silence for some of the songs not count as someone's choice to abstain from singing those songs?

These days, I doubt you could get the entire stadium singing along to a song like BOTOB.
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If they aren't stopping us then they are actively supporting us in my opinion.

Mystic Penguin, Aug 3, 2011

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Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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Mystic Penguin said: ↑

If they aren't stopping us then they are actively supporting us in my opinion.
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Actively trying to stop people from singing at games would cause unnecessary confrontation at a match where no-one wants to see fans fighting/arguing with one another. Would achieve nothing in my opinion. You'd also have to have a lot of bravado to walk up to someone you don't know and tell them to stop singing.

Callum McGregor, Aug 4, 2011

#444
Mystic Penguin

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Minty said: ↑

Actively trying to stop people from singing at games would cause unnecessary confrontation at a match where no-one wants to see fans fighting/arguing with one another. Would achieve nothing in my opinion. You'd also have to have a lot of bravado to walk up to someone you don't know and tell them to stop singing.
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I know with absolute certainty that moaning on a forum won't stop. At least taking a stand against these songs(for whatever ignorant reason). Would get noticed and others would have a chance to agree.

If I hated songs about Ireland and its history. I wouldn't support Celtic.

Mystic Penguin, Aug 4, 2011

#445
Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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Mystic Penguin said: ↑

I know with absolute certainty that moaning on a forum won't stop. At least taking a stand against these songs(for whatever ignorant reason). Would get noticed and others would have a chance to agree.

If I hated songs about Ireland and its history. I wouldn't support Celtic.
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I can't recall anyone who has said they hate songs about Ireland or Irish history.

Callum McGregor, Aug 4, 2011

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Mystic Penguin

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Minty said: ↑

I can't recall anyone who has said they hate songs about Ireland or Irish history.
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I'm just stating my opinion it doesn't necessarily have to be aimed at anyone.

Mystic Penguin, Aug 4, 2011

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Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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Mystic Penguin said: ↑

I'm just stating my opinion it doesn't necessarily have to be aimed at anyone.
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Fair enough.
Callum McGregor, Aug 4, 2011

#448

Mystic Penguin

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One thing I will say is I think there is a reasonable argument on whether Rebel songs have a place at Celtic Park.

But for people to say we shouldn't be singing these songs because of the following:
o The war is over. (Just a all round stupid thing to say.)
o These songs are illegal- Eh no they aren't.
o Neil Lennon asked for them to stopped- No he didn't
o These songs are offensive- They are offensive to ignorant people who likely know * all about history

These types of arguments are just ridiculous to say the least. I think any reasonable person would need to concede the fact that there's nothing wrong with singing songs about Irish heroes.Regardless of whether they think they have a place at Celtic park or not.

Mystic Penguin, Aug 4, 2011

#449
Born green

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Mystic Penguin said: ↑

You discourage away mate.

If you and others find songs about Irish heroes offence. Then that's your and other people's problem. Don't make it ours.

And thd songs we sing haven't been banned so please stop acting as if they have.
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 You really aren't getting the point here.

No one on this forum is offended by the songs, especially not me. I seriously doubt even most Rangers fans are. That's not really the issue, I couldn't care less what the scum think of us.

I do, however, care what the public and worldwide perception of the Celtic family is. Every time we sing something that the media can get excited about, they twist and turn it into a defamatory story damning Celtic football club - regardless of the facts. It just adds to the misconception that 'they are as bad as each other'.

So maybe not banned yet, but the damage you will be doing to our reputation is far worse than any ban on individuals. If it takes singing these 48 Celtic songs instead of those 2 then what's the big deal? The problem Rangers have is 9 out of 10 of their songs are sectarian or offensive and have nothing else to sing so continue to sing the same bile week after week. We create new songs every year, there is no need to sing anything that puts the club into disrepute. Come on, see some sense.

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Born green, Aug 4, 2011

#450
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Born green said: ↑

 You really aren't getting the point here.

No one on this forum is offended by the songs, especially not me. I seriously doubt even most Rangers fans are. That's not really the issue, I couldn't care less what the scum think of us.

I do, however, care what the public and worldwide perception of the Celtic family is. Every time we sing something that the media can get excited about, they twist and turn it into a defamatory story damning Celtic football club - regardless of the facts. It just adds to the misconception that 'they are as bad as each other'.

So maybe not banned yet, but the damage you will be doing to our reputation is far worse than any ban on individuals. If it takes singing these 48 Celtic songs instead of those 2 then what's the big deal? The problem Rangers have is 9 out of 10 of their songs are sectarian or offensive and have nothing else to sing so continue to sing the same bile week after week. We create new songs every year, there is no need to sing anything that puts the club into disrepute. Come on, see some sense.
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I don't give a * about the media. I see sense and im not giving into racism from the media or anyone else.

Mystic Penguin, Aug 4, 2011

#451
jcwelsh

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 Who wouldn’t sing flower of Scotland at a Scotland match

What’s the difference?

What attracted me to Celtic was the history of the club, The Irish priest coming over and trying to raise funds for the poor of the east end of Glasgow, which just happens to be poor Irish immigrants of a catholic following.

People who continued to still stay in Scotland in those conditions because they where still a lot better that they would have had back in Ireland.

Yes they came over telling there stories of their plights, penning lyrics to songs in the hope that their history continues throughout the generations to follow.

Many cultures use this method; our national anthem is a prime example with Flower of Scotland.

What is our answer, to be embarrassed about them?

Have a look at the lyrics to the song BOTOB and you will find there is no difference between it and the flower of Scotland.

One about a father telling his son about being proud of the men fighting for their country

This other talking about fighting and dying for their country whilst both at war to invaders to their countries.

I'll say it again

Who wouldn’t sing flower of Scotland at a Scotland match

shame on the one's that are trying to make people feel bad about sing songs such as BOTOB

jcwelsh, Aug 4, 2011

#452
Dion Telfer

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Mystic Penguin said: ↑

o The war is over. (Just a all round stupid thing to say.)

o These songs are offensive- They are offensive to ignorant people who likely know * all about history
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That is your analysis (and the analysis of other people with a desire to partake in IRA chants). I don’t think Parkhead in its entirety is agreeable to the idea the IRA is relevant to the present political context (whether you accept that or not).

They may not be offensive but are alienating to aspects of the fan base (who advocate other means of pursuing nationalist objective).

At what point during a game do such supporters get an opportunity to chant “politics” or some other vehicle besides Republican violence? There is simply no unanimity regarding IRA chanting.

Dion Telfer, Aug 4, 2011

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jcwelsh said: ↑

 Who wouldn?t sing flower of Scotland at a Scotland match

What?s the difference?

What attracted me to Celtic was the history of the club, The Irish priest coming over and trying to raise funds for the poor of the east end of Glasgow, which just happens to be poor Irish immigrants of a catholic following.

People who continued to still stay in Scotland in those conditions because they where still a lot better that they would have had back in Ireland.

Yes they came over telling there stories of their plights, penning lyrics to songs in the hope that their history continues throughout the generations to follow.

Many cultures use this method; our national anthem is a prime example with Flower of Scotland.

What is our answer, to be embarrassed about them?

Have a look at the lyrics to the song BOTOB and you will find there is no difference between it and the flower of Scotland.

One about a father telling his son about being proud of the men fighting for their country

This other talking about fighting and dying for their country whilst both at war to invaders to their countries.

I'll say it again

Who wouldn?t sing flower of Scotland at a Scotland match

shame on the one's that are trying to make people feel bad about sing songs such as BOTOB
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Bang on.

Mystic Penguin, Aug 4, 2011

#454
The The Hand

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Thing is, different things offend different people.

Some people are offended by naked *, whereas I am kinda the opposite.

Personally what I find most offensive is anything with the word "Rangers" in it, in which the word is not preceded by either "the *" or "* the".

The The Hand, Aug 4, 2011

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Born green

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New point:

If you dont care what the media think, oppossing fans, or even your own fans not in support think, then why oh why are you singing it?

I'm proud to sing about Celtic football club's history as it is football related. Historical or present politics isnt, or at least it shouldn't be.

Born green, Aug 4, 2011

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The The Hand

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Born green said: ↑

I'm proud to sing about Celtic football club's history as it is football related. Historical or present politics isnt, or at least it shouldn't be.
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I think the point is that Celtic as an institution has other relations and significances as well as the purely football-related ones. To give one example, we have a long history of charitable work - which is still very much alive and well, as this year's african famine project demonstrated. Connection of famine relief with football? Nil. But nevertheless I'm proud to be associated with that aspect of the club's work and tradition.

And also - although I have next to no Irish blood, and no wish to claim any - I'm proud to be associated with the club's historical connection to anti-racist movements, and to republicanism, which I feel is a noble and democratic strand of social evolution.

I don't sing Roaming In The Gloaming, because I feel it contains lines which express a hatred of the Protestant tradition. I don't even sing If You Hate The * Rangers - because I don't think hatred is something we should be celebrating.

However I have no problem with Boys Of The Old Brigade - it is a noble song, and there is no trace of hatred expressed in its lyric.

The The Hand, Aug 4, 2011

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Mr. Slippyfist

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The Hand said: ↑

I think the point is that Celtic as an institution has other relations and significances as well as the purely football-related ones. To give one example, we have a long history of charitable work - which is still very much alive and well, as this year's african famine project demonstrated. Connection of famine relief with football? Nil. But nevertheless I'm proud to be associated with that aspect of the club's work and tradition.

And also - although I have next to no Irish blood, and no wish to claim any - I'm proud to be associated with the club's historical connection to anti-racist movements, and to republicanism, which I feel is a noble and democratic strand of social evolution.

I don't sing Roaming In The Gloaming, because I feel it contains lines which express a hatred of the Protestant tradition. I don't even sing If You Hate The * Rangers - because I don't think hatred is something we should be celebrating.

However I have no problem with Boys Of The Old Brigade - it is a noble song, and there is no trace of hatred expressed in its lyric.
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Although I don't agree with you on RITG, you make very good points Mr. Hand (I keep forgetting to ask you wether it is the left or the right?).

I wonder if - should fans start to sing songs about africans rising up and fighting dictatorship in their counties - would these same non-sensical arguments crop up?

As to the points of 'well you aren't going to have the full stadium bouncing to BOTB like JCGE, I highly doubt everyone in that stadium are singing along to an 80's pop song

Wether or not we are now becoming a 'minority' of fans that are 'embarrasing' the club - as some have constantly suggested - I personally could not give a * who many of us there are singing it - or how many are offended by it.

As long as 'Let the People Sing' is still blared out of the tannoy before kick off, and as long as the Irish Tri-colour flies high above Celtic Park, I and many others shall continue to sing songs of Irish freedom and tales of fighting opression.

If you don't like it, then chuck loff.

Mr. Slippyfist, Aug 4, 2011

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Mr. Slippyfist

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I don't like kilts - infact I think they are stupid and I hate them.

of·fend (-fnd)v. of·fend·ed, of·fend·ing, of·fends
v.tr.1. To cause displeasure, anger, resentment, or wounded feelings in.

I guess I am caused a bit of displeasure when I see guys wearing kilts at Celtic games - am I going to call up the Offensive Unit Squad at Strathclyde Police because I am 'offended' by a man showing something that symbolises a part of his tradition at Celtic games.....not a chance!

Well.......as long as he isn't wearing Timberland boots with his kilt

Mr. Slippyfist, Aug 4, 2011

#459
Sean South 1888

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Rude Bhoy said: ↑

 As long as there continues to be ambiguity then there will be problems.

The main difficulty is that they will never publish a list of banned songs - sectarian songs and those which are deemed 'political' or 'offensive'.

Because if they did, it would only take a small percentage out of our songbook, on the other hand, it would virtually wipe out the Hun’s entire repertoire.

As Graham Spiers said: it must always be seen as "one being as bad as the other"

This is precisely why the problem has never been tackled in Scotland. They won’t target the real bigots, in stead; they try to make a compromise by targeting the victims as well.

That is why they’ve gone after Celtic’s Irish Republican chanting. They can’t get Celtic for sectarianism, so they’ve tried to extend the battle to 'offensive chanting' - this is evidenced by the fact they’ve ignored Rangers Loyalist chanting. 

If they were so concerned about political chanting, then Loyalist songs would have be banned; or at least highlighted as well.

But because they aren’t, it merely confirms the belief that the decision to go after Celtic’s Irish Republican songs, is just a proxy attempt to drag us into the issue in order to appease the bigots.

So as I said before, as long as the Huns are allowed to sing about Loyalist terror and British imperialism, there can be no complaints about Irish Republican ballads.
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Absolutely, completely and utterly spot on. This is exactly the point i have made on many occasions on here and also on Phil Mac's website. With respect to Phil, i completely disagree with his views on the songs issue. He seems to think we should lie down to this new "legislation" despite it being riddled with inequality. I have to admit i was very surprised at his stance on the issue and, perhaps cynically on my part, i think there are other influences behind his blogs on the matter.

The laws to tackle sectarian singing were already in place long ago. They simply were not exercised. Anyone who can't see this "legislation" for what it is are either blind or in denial.

The problem was, the current laws could only target songs sung by Rangers fans as that is where the vast majority of sectarian singing was coming from. Republican songs could not be targeted on the basis of being sectarian. To try and retain the "one as bad as the other" misconception, they conceived the "offensive chanting" legislation.

It's stinks to the high heavens.

Sean South 1888, Aug 4, 2011

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