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Neil Lennon

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by romeo9535, Apr 17, 2016.

Discuss Neil Lennon in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. The_Bhoy

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    If all 4 want out we won’t keep them. Christie’s contract length and his dad consistently touting him for England says it all, if a team comes in for him he’s gone. Ajer already being talked about as going.

    I totally understand what’s being said about us not selling them but Lenny has already said everyone has a price. I’m not trying to sell our players off nor do I want us to. I disagree with our almost reactionary transfers this window (although they have been good so far)

    -Forster didn’t want back up, Barkas signed
    -turnbull in as a replacement for either rogic or ntcham I think
    -Duffy in for Ajer (yet we still need at least 2 other CB’s)
    -Ajeti in cos griff has * it and I think we still wanted Toney to replace eddy.

    right now we still need a LWB, 2 CB’s and a RW and another striker With the squad we have at the moment. Can’t see us spending big on those positions after the few we’ve spent on already yet if we take in say £35-40m for eddy, £10m for ntcham, £15-20 mil for Ajer, and £6-8 mil for Christie how much will actually be put back into the squad.

    Of course I don’t want any to leave but I just think it’s slightly naive to think there’s no chance of us seeing them all leave...especially it the players want gone themselves
     
  2. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    No chance will we sell Christie for £6-8m.

    All of them may go but if they do it will be on our terms and there will be £65m minimum coming into the club, so money will be reinvested. How much and how successful they are remains to be seen.

    Eddie and Christie would be the biggest losses out of the 4 for me. We'll have to spend serious money to replace the numbers that they bring to the team.

    I have high hopes for Turnbull and while he doesn't have the quality that Ntcham does, I think he can be more effective for us.

    Ajer has upped his game massively since being dropped for Bitton for a few games but I still think he could be replaced for the money that's being quoted.

    Supporters won't accept all 4 being sold and only a fraction of it being reinvested into the team though, particularly if it killed our push for 10 in a row. The board know that there would be a huge revolt if that happened.

    A lot of ifs, but and maybes ...we just have to hope that the people we have in place at the club know what they're doing and are preparing for all eventualities.
     
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  3. Officer Doofy Hey Terry, smell my finger!

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    Wouldn't be shocked to see Ajer and/or Ntcham leave. As much as I'd hate to see the former go.

    Don't think there's a chance Christie leaves this window. Not sure there's enough interest in him from elsewhere, for a start.
     
  4. MickMac Gold Member Gold Member

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    I think you'll be disappointed for many years to come if you think we can be CL group stage regulars. The way European football finances are structured and the CL itself is structured puts teams like Celtic at a huge disadvantage. We should beat teams like Ferencvaros but in the next couple if rounds we would have met teams who would be happy to play us and think they could beat us. We can only become regulars if they change the qualifying structure and give the champions of smaller nations an easier route in instead of allowing the 4th teams from the bigger richer leagues direct entry. I won't be holding my breath for that to happen. I think our current standing in Europe will continue whoever the manager is. I think we'll have to content ourselves with some decent scores and runs in the EL like last season and the occasional CL group stage appearance. We should strive to be the best we can be but it's unrealistic to think our level is CL regulars as things stand.
     
  5. JC Anton Here we go... Gold Member

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    Thats not really the point I'm making.. I understand the difficulty in making the group stages regularly and you do need a bit of luck and a good draw.

    However, it's not seen as a priority by the board, its a bonus and not budgeted for. And given these unpredictable times their prudence is probably justified.

    With Lenny you know what you're getting and it almost wasn't a surprise exiting at home the way we did, but I'm going to enjoy the ride..

    But, once we get to our destination and after the plaudits are received we need a new way of doing business throughout the club and that includes a coach with some tactical ability, fresh ideas and impetus.

    Clubs with a fraction of our budget are much more efficient in Europe and we're further away from CL qualification than we should be as a club and that's something that should never be accepted.
     
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  6. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    They already have done that with the Champions Path Mick.

    In the last decade the only team that has dumped us out in the UCL qualifiers that had a bigger budget than was Arsenal and that was prior to the 'Champions Route' being created.

    2009/10: Arsenal - play-off round
    2010/11: Braga - 3rd qualifying round
    2011/12: Finished 2nd in League so no UCL

    2012/13: Helsingborgs - Qualified
    2013/14: Karagandy - Qualified
    2014/15: Legia - 3rd round, Maribor play-off after getting a reprieve for Legia fielding ineligible player
    2015/16: Malmo play-off

    2016/17: Hapoel Beer She'eva - Qualified
    2017/18: Astana - Qualified

    2018/19: AEK - 3rd round
    2019/20: Cluj - 3rd round
    2020/21: Ferencvaros - 2nd round
     
  7. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    Aye, the fact that the top 4 leagues get 4 automatic entrants is ridiculous but we are still being drawn against teams that we have a bigger budget than and in theory should be beating. Obviously it won't always work out that way and we will be beaten but we should still be doing a lot better than what we are.
     
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  8. Foley1888

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    It is when you see the number of players that are currently regulars who could move on you realise how big of a rebuilding job we have on our hands.

    The four mentioned plus rumours continuing to be thrown up about CalMac and Leicester, Browny coming to the end and the fact we don’t have a LB or LWB option good enough. Also Ely is just a loan. CalMac seems unlikely but the other 3 are apparent that replacements are needed over the next 3 windows (including this one).

    We have brought in what looks like decent signings this window in Ajeti, Barkas, Duffy, Ely and Turnbull but arguably all with the exception of Turnbull, have been needed for some time. We are basically playing catch up on last seasons windows, a mixed bag in the summer and a non event in January.

    Eddy, Ntcham, Ajer and Christie will go over the course of the next 3 windows, particularly if no extensions are signed. We would hope to get in at least £65m for them potentially as high as £80m but if they all get to a year left we simply won’t.

    We will also need to fill the gaps left by Ely, Duffy and Brown come the end of the season. At least 6 of those 7 need replacing, CBx2, Striker, Winger, CAM and a DM. CM we have a few prospects but not much for the others.

    The above is the reason I am not a fan of loans with no option to buy, as it kicks the can down the road and then when you need to replace this seasons squad holes you get presented again with last years on top of them.

    There is a lot of work to be done over the remainder of this window to address some of these potential challenges so we don’t end up with 3 seasons worth next year.
     
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  9. The_Bhoy

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    Spot on mate, although I do like the 2 year loan cycles if it’s for a player of the quality of Ely, Roberts etc. As we’re getting a player we’d never be able to afford for the length of time that standard of player would usually be with us anyway. The loans aren’t the issue there it’s our recruitment within that last year of whoever’s loan it is not bringing a replacement in and then also down to Lenny not playing these players at all apart from 10 mins here and there. Fair enough he might not fancy them, but if that’s the case he needs to say that before they * sign and we waste millions. Like you said about the contracts is the main reason I could see all 4 leaving this year. We got what 7mil for Armstrong? Christie isn’t as good as he was so could see about the same fee for how transfers are progressing financially. Don’t care what season it is, after the loss we made on boyata I don’t think Pete will allow that mistake again unfortunately
     
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  10. DamianWayneCSC

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    Purely for the sake of seeing it from the other side of our signings so far not being reactionary (I think that is how I picked up your summary as these being reactionary signings?):

    - We needed a keeper regardless, Forster rejected the move and it took a couple of weeks at least to make the move on Barkas - someone it seems we had scouted previously.
    - Turnbull was lined up for over a year, that is very much not reactionary, if we want to argue it is, it is reactionary to missing McGinn if anything.
    - Duffy is a much needed CB that we have been short of at least 2 for a couple of seasons now, that can not be reactionary, regardless of rumours on Ajer. It's 2 seasons over due and as you say another is still needed.
    - Ajeti we can argue Lennon is keen on 2 up top, Bayo was clearly unfavoured and that left us just 3 with Klimala and Gritths being hit or miss at present. A 4th striker was always going to be needed long term to play 2 up top, with a view to Edouard also leaving in the next 12 months, forward planning I would suggest.

    Not meaning that to argue against you, as I actually agree quite a bit with your view here. We need to do more.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  11. DamianWayneCSC

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    As much as the board short change the fans very very often, I have to agree here Sean.
    They know what this season means and they know the rebuild that is on the cusp. They will not risk their own position by short changing the fans in such an obvious manner if all 4 (or 2) are sold for big money and a reasonable amount not reinvested to spark hope to the support.

    Selling key players with no reinvestment and if we DID lose the league, they know it would be the end of them. Best they can do to protect their own * is to at least back the squad financially this season to make sure then ten happens, or at worst they arent to blame for it.
    Hence, for me, £5million on Barkas and Ajeti and a reasonable high profile signing of Duffy so far.
     
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  12. The_Bhoy

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    I get what you’re saying, and that’s why I said I’ve actually liked our window so far but I do feel it’s reactionary still. As you say we’ve needed another centre back for over a season and only just got Duffy in. Turnbull is a signing I like but he’s not first team ready yet I don’t think. We lost Gordon and Forster this year, and I’m glad we actually spent on a keeper. Was sure Pete would turn round and do the “poor us we’ll just get someone cheap in instead”.
    The defence is terrifying how little cover we actually have in the centre. Welsh, Duffy and jullien (it Ajer goes) as our only out and out CB’s. I get bitton and elhamed can do a job there but the people in charge of putting the Best team out on the Pitch should be asking for more than that.

    long as eddy doesn’t leave I’ll be buzzing regardless
     
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  13. DamianWayneCSC

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    Gotta agree with all that @The_Bhoy
    CB is actually disgusting how neglected it has become and for me still another (maybe 2 if Welsh isnt to be afforded some game time) is needed in before the window closes, and that is before we entertain Ajer leaving.

    I am the same regarding Barkas and that fear of the cheap option! Which to be honest is the main signing I am impressed with us for, not seen enough to rate him, but the fact we scouted a 26 year old breaking in to a decent national side and spent a fair fee on shows we at least did our homework on the lad - be it he could be great, meh, or *.
     
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  14. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    The supporters have done their bit: A lot refused to take up the refund they were entitled to for last season's missed games, bought up 53,000 season books with no knowledge of when they'll actually get to use it, Adidas kits and merch flying off the online and store shelves.

    We will always back the club to the hilt but if they sold those 4 players and didn't put the lion's share of the money back into the team and it proved terminal for our 10 in a row chances then it would be the end of board. The revolt would be like nothing we've seen before. I think they know that.
     
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  15. DamianWayneCSC

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    100% fully agree!

    And as much as I do reckon the board needs changed, I really really * hope this does not end up being the case at all.
    Too much to risk for everyone this season.
     
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  16. Foley1888

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    Agree on longer term loans but Ely is a good example, I think regardless of what happens this year we are unlikely to get him on a permanent due to the wages issue rumoured to be on £50-60k a week. Also Southampton likely to want a decent fee given he will still have a couple of years on his deal. So come next summer it should not be a shock to us if we can’t get him back. Therefore come January we really need someone in to challenge MJ for the left wing position, for me they should be signed by January at the latest even if it is a bosman or sign and loan back if their game time will be limited.

    I also agree with you on the Boyata situation not sitting well with Lawwell and him not allowing an asset that could have brought in a decent fee run their contract down. A good example would be Christie or Ajer who could if not sold now decide to run their contract down.

    You also have the form side of things Eddy and Christie are on the back of good seasons which will inflate their price, Ntcham was in and out but had a good run post Christmas and Ajers potential and attributes attracts suitors.

    Given the Tierney scenario where you have a guy who was a big fan of the club making a move to the big money league, I can see if an acceptable bid comes in for any of the four they will likely be off. I think it is a matter of when, how many and who goes out the four rather than if.

    We have already seen Lennon has limited influence in that area with players brought in who aren’t getting a sniff and players being let go or sold he says he wants to keep.
     
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  17. Notorious Gold Member Gold Member

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    NL: "We know we are going to get tested. We’ve had a very good couple of days of training and the boys are buoyant so we’re looking forward to the game."

    NL: "
    @RossCounty
    are a very stable club. They play good football and we’re going up there in a good time of the season. It’s important to impose ourselves on the opposition. We are aware of their threats.


    NL: "Nir is feeling a bit sore on the knees and that’s being assessed as we speak. Everyone’s returned, Mikey is more of a long term casualty but Tom started training today and Griffiths is doing fitness work, so will hopefully be available for the upcoming games


    NL: "I don’t think we’ve hit top form yet but I’m pleased with the main. The sore one is losing in the Champions League but overall I’ve been pretty satisfied. We want to get into a block of games ahead of the next international break where we find our consistency.


    NL: "It’s hugely important. Health and safety comes first but as far as our home environment is concerned it’s as good as anywhere in Britain and it’s ready to go."


    NL on
    @shaneduffy
    : "Shane will go straight into the squad. It's a great bit of business by the club and great for the supporters. We’ve got a quality player that understands the ethos of the club and it's important to have players like that in the dressing room."
     
  18. Notorious Gold Member Gold Member

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  19. evilbunny1991

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    That is grim reading. Apart from Arsenal we were favourites in all of those ties and more often than not we failed.

    I don’t expect us to qualify everytime because there will always be games you don’t play well that’s football but via the champions path i would expect a 50% success rate.

    From that table out of 11 attempts we qualified 4 times. Take out Arsenal and it’s 4 in 10 attempts, just not good enough whatever way you want to spin it.
     
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  20. Ziggy

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    there's definitely a psychological thing as well now with cl qualifiers. Salzburg were the same. Couldn't get by the qualifiers for years and were getting beat by teams they shouldn't have