Multiculturalism - has it failed?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrVKlJKYriY[/ame]

 

I think Islam is incompatible with modern liberal democracies, but so is any religion, including Christianity. Most religious people however do not follow their religion orthodoxly and therefore are able to coexist within multicultural societies perfectly well. The Islamic problem that you speak of is a problem within Islam of radicalism, not a problem of multiculturalism. It affects multicultural societies because their are Muslims who live in these societies and inevitably some will be radicalised - radical Islam is a problem within a religion, partly caused by Western foreign policy (by no means solely caused by it though)

If multiculturalism has failed because radical Islam exists and the solution is to remove Muslims from our society, would that really end radical islam? It would make it worse imo. I really dont see how it can be said that multiculturalism has failed because a minority of people in a minority group have views out of kilter with western thinking. Multiculturalism is both necessary and inevitable in todays world and I think the problem of radical Islam strengthens the need for us to celebrate our differences, rather than use them as forces to create divisions between us

 

And the media badly misreprsented the Cologne attacks, only 3 of the 90 or so attacks were committed by refugees/migrants - you have to remember mainstream media does have a clear agenda on this issue and it would be wise to be dubious of what they have to say about it

 

But I'm no apologist for religious extremists, We'd all be able to live in peace if their was no religion at all

 

Of course.

 

THat would explain their reluctance to have immigration . But not their dislike of Muslims.

My point was that the countries with the least amount of Muslims disliked them the most.

Even take out Poland and just concentrate on Greece, Spain and Italy. They have alot less Muslims than the UK, Germany, France , Netherlands and Sweden and yet they dislike Muslims alot more.

I think its because they dont know any Muslims on a personal level and will make judgments by what they see in the press.

 

Or maybe it's because countries with higher Muslim populations return more favourable opinions on Muslims due to the fact that Muslims are voting in the surveys.

 

I really hope your joking.

I think you are but sometimes its difficult to tell on here.

 

Half-joking :smiley-laughing002:

 

Thats one way to skew a survey I guess :bbpd:

 

The difference is that Christianity, as our main religion in this part of the world, has had to evolve and change with the times as our society has changed. That doesn't apply to Islam.

The belief system of many Muslims, if compared to their UK Christian counterparts, is the equivalent of views held here hundreds of years ago, especially when it comes to issues such as women's rights.

Also, Christianity is dying out in the UK. Only recently we saw various reports that claimed that Church attendance has dropped to an all-time low.

Younger people simply aren't buying into the Christian religion as much as their parents & grandparents did, and this will create issues down the line (we're already seeing these issues at the moment).

Young minorities from the Islamic faith are in many cases becoming even more fervent in their religious faith, so the exact opposite is happening there.

And you didn't answer my question. When you say that the host nation has to change their ways to accommodate and make multiculturalism a success what exactly do you mean?

Because from where I'm sitting we would have to look at curtailing many of the freedoms and equal rights that we have fought for over the years in order to accommodate a religion that is still, for the most part, based in the past.

I'm not talking about radical Islam though, I'm talking about Islam in general. It's a religion that is on the rise in the Western world, and that disturbs me because as a people we're becoming less & less religious and our lifestyles and beliefs are mostly opposed to the teachings of Islam.

We'll see issues arise as the Islamic faith gains more & more popularity, and in turn manages to secure more & more of a hold on power.

The current Mayor of London has come in and decided that we shouldn't be allowed to see scantily-clad people (primarily women) on advertisements on London Transport.

Now, regardless of your views on the matter, surely we shouldn't be returning to the days when images of women are banned due to the clothes they wear?

And the idea that radical Islam mostly exists due to Western foreign policy is becoming a bit tiresome.

Groups like ISIS aren't waging a campaign of terror on the west because our armed forces are killing their fellow Muslims, they're doing so because our interference in the region is scuppering their plans for a Caliphate.

In fact, they kill more Muslims than any western force ever could.

These groups would always be there, regardless of us being involved in the Middle-East or not, because they exist to rule over that part of the world with their own version of Islam. Has our actions in places like Iraq inadvertently opened doors for them? Of course, but we're not the reason they exist.

Who said that "removing Muslims" from society is the answer? That's a stupid suggestion, and it almost certainly couldn't be carried out.

As I've said, it's not a minority of people who have views out of kilter with our way of thinking, it's actually more like a minority who have views that can be considered modern, progressive and in line with our society.

Islam in Britain at the moment is the equivalent of going back to the mid-1800's and taking Christianity as it was then, along with its followers, and dropping it into modern Britain.

Not everyone from that era would have wanted to use violent force to impose their own religious beliefs on others, would they? For every stoning and harsh punishment handed out to someone based on their sexuality or gender you can bet that the entire crowd didn't buy into the idea. A lot of them would have known it was wrong, but they went along with it because it was the done thing.

That's the situation we're in at the moment with Islam, and it's going to take a long time to change. That's if the change happens at all.

If we have enough people like yourself who's happy enough to "accommodate" them, and enough who manage to find themselves in positions of power where they have the authority to ban images of females in bikinis from public transport and suchlike then we'll undoubtedly see a rolling back of many of the rights we enjoy today.

Sorry mate, but that sounds like an excerpt right out of a multicultural handbook.

We have a situation in the western world where the native population have slowly become less and less religious over the years, and is moving towards a society where people aren't persecuted or discriminated against because of their gender or sexuality, but on the other side we're seeing a growth in popularity of a religion that goes against all of that for the most part.

You yourself have said that Islam is incompatible with modern liberal democracies, so why would you go to great lengths to accommodate it?

It won't end well, regardless of how many soundbites we hear about celebrating differences.

 

Superb Post Daibhi,superb!!!!

 

Agree with most of what you said Daibhi.

Do you think the Muslim community is getting more religious though? Im only speaking from anecdotal evidence here but most of the Muslims I know are more secular than their parents. That still makes them alot less secular than most of us though. Id be interested to see if there have been any studies on this.

Islam does seem to be a little bit behind the rest of the mainstream religions and certainly atheists in terms of women's rights and marrying outside of the religion ect.

I also dont think its the equivalent of Christianity in the 1800s though. I mean they had only just stopped burning witches at that point. It wasn't so long ago that women were treated like second class citizens in this country , they didn't get the vote until 1928, and I imagine to get equal rights was a long slow process not an overnight thing. And to be clear im talking about this country not countries such as Saudi Arabia.

I imagine marrying outside of your religion if you were protestant or catholic would have been a big deal no longer than 30 years ago in this city. So while I do agree that Islam is a bit behind the times in comparison with the rest of the UK to claim its the equivalent of Christianity in the 1800s is quite inaccurate.

 

Where are the Russians when you need them.

 

Very good, Daibhi.

 

I was talking about the religion as a whole. Islam in Britain is more likely to be the exception rather than the rule, isn't it?