Multiculturalism - has it failed?

I Know it is only one of the points your friend raised Jeannie but in my experience things like the nativity and Christianity in schools are probably more likely to be attacked or criticised by atheists than they are Muslims or people from other Religions.

 

We're already seeing instances of this. New London Mayor Sadiq Khan has made moves to ban advertisements on London Transport that depict people, and primarily women, in a state of undress. He's claiming to be doing it in an attempt to fight against "body shaming" in females, but the more cynical among us could suggest that the intention is to remove women in provocative clothing from public advertising.

A small step I know, but what will be next I wonder?

It's also interesting to note that he didn't make mention of his intentions to do this at any point in the lead-up to his election.

 

Yeah I think so too. Someone I spoke to recently pulled his kids out of school the day of the Easter trip/play/party or whatever was happening. He didn't want his children taking part in it. It's a funny old world where we don't all try to encourage mutual respect and treat such events as a learning experience about other cultures. I went to a protestant school as a child, was never baptised and never ever encouraged to discriminate against anyone. My father was Atheist (as was most of his family) and mum is RC but we went along with all the Christian holidays and events. My parents considered it enough not to be religious bashing and allow us to find our own way. 5 of their girls out of 6 married Catholics :smiley-laughing002:. Without going down the religion road too much I think I take after my father

 

The problem is that people in the host society are very unwilling to change their ways at all and want the migrant to change as much as possible in order to 'assimilate' or become like a member of the host society. In order for multiculturalism to work there has to be recognition from both sides that both side's cultures each have merits and flaws and that adaptation is needed from both parties in order to become like each other, rather than the onus just being on the migrant to become like the host.

When migration first happens there is always a backlash as their is a tribal instinct in some members of our society who havent gone through an evolution of conciousness and still have a caveman mentality to change. However after a couple of generations, migrants and migrant families do become part of the fabric of mainstream society as they and society naturally adapts and changes in order to fit them in.

We can all live together just fine.

 

Change the word Muslim to Catholic and that's a rant off of vanguard bears

 

Shame society doesn't see it like that. As you say it takes compromise from both sides but you can never really eradicate tribalism as elements will always exist. There's so many bampots out there that world will likely end before we see the kind of evolution that you describe Our differences are not uniting us but rather seem to be pushing us further and further apart.

 

Yeah I thought that too at the time :smiley-laughing002:

 

Better no be drink and gambling or my reaction will make the Dark look like Tony Benn :smiley-laughing002:

 

Yes, differing cultures might very well their have merits and flaws but some are more flawed than others. The culture we have in Europe is different to the culture in north Africa or the ME, I would say ours is better, more tolerant, more enlightened.

 

I'm not sure I buy into that really. I haven't seen any instances of Hindu's, Sikh's or any other prominent religious group experiencing the same level of issues that Muslims have? How have we as a people changed our ways to accommodate either of those religious groups?

When you say that the host nation has to change their ways to accommodate and make multiculturalism a success what exactly do you mean?

Sorry mate, but whilst that kind of mentality was perhaps prevalent back in the day in Britain, it's not really the case anymore. We live in a global society nowadays, where travel, immigration and the movement of people have all become commonplace.

Take yourself into any bar or restaurant in Glasgow on a Friday or Saturday night and you'll see people of various nationalities all breaking bread together and enjoying themselves.

As I said, the issue isn't with foreign people or foreign cultures for the most part, it's with Islam.

Sure, we'll always see a small percentage of people who hate for no reason, that's just how it is, but for the most part the non-Muslim minorities get by just fine in places like Britain.

Funny you should mention a caveman mentality, because it's exactly that which we're seeing being brought to this country from some uneducated types who live as though it's the dark ages.

And that's not just my opinion, you hear it a whole lot from Muslims who have lived in the west for a period of time. The belief system in the Middle-East when it comes to certain sections of Islam simply flies in the face of a modern, progressive, liberal society.

The treatment of women in places like Germany and Sweden are prime examples of that.

In what world do you actually need to tell a group of people than molesting a girl as she walks past you isn't okay, and that her wearing a skirt and a low-cut top isn't an invitation to have a grab?

That * is as backwards as it gets, and such behaviour has no place in a modern society.

Usually that is the case, but we're seeing resistance from Islam on that part. There's a reason why when people talk about multiculturalism failing these days they're basically meaning Islam.

For the most part no one is opposing the way Sikh's or Hindu's go about their business, are they?

 

Well, CelticBhoy17 says we need to do more to adapt to their way of life, so....

:icon_mrgreen:

 

Right on the money.

 

Multiculturalism, to an extent, is a good thing and enriches the country that has taken it in, providing a more open outlook. That said, the way Western, European leaders have implemented multiculturalism has been a total disaster. It has turned into mass immigration where ghetto communities have been established and caused friction in European countries. Certain immigrant groups are far better at assimilating and integrating than others, too.

 

Great points I think these things have caused fear and lack of understanding which promote more negativity. My sister lives in such a community and my friend in NI fears it happening on that scale there. Really interesting and valid points/opinions made in this thread and anyone doing modern studies would be wise to pay heed.

 

Post-Communist nationalism isn't a new thing. Due to the oppressive and tyrannical nature of Communism in Eastern Europe, the Communist ideals which were promoted at the time, the internationalism, the liberalism and left-wing ideals as a whole have been vehemently rejected in Eastern Europe because they know what the end product is, whereas the architectonics of the Frankfurt school and the Western movements which aren't scorned by Communist slaughter have marched through institutions in Europe and even in the U.S., specifically universities and schools, to promote Cultural Marxism almost unchallenged.

Western communists learned that, for them to be successful in Western society, they would have to repudiate Communist slaughter and instead excel in the polymorphous rebellions of Herbert Marcuse and other student revolutions in the 1960s. Communism decimated and discouraged ethnic identity, race, language, history and culture, which is deeply demoralising for a people in a nation state. The idea that there's something oppressive about being male, the idea that there's something oppressive about being a Caucasian, the idea that there's something oppressive about identifying with your own people's history and so on have been exhausted in Eastern Europe and have become platitudinous there to the point where they've now become redundant. Conversely, in Western Europe and the U.S. especially, these ideas and beliefs are depicted as revolutionary and modern and have become extremely popular with those in academic institutions and those on the left side of politics. Morally, mentally and spiritually, a large portion of the population in the Western world has been undermined. This is something that ex-Soviet propaganda expert and KGB defector predicted would happen, I'll leave the link to the video below.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8pPbrbJJQs[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3nXvScRazg[/ame]

 

There's a reason why these Corbyn supporters were given a free pass. Imagine if Farage supporters marched through London with Hitler banners and Swastika flags?

 

I guess you could say I live in a similar place to Tommy Robinson with regards to ethnic makeup, religious divide and socioeconomic dispensation.

It's unfair to just strictly blame Islam, though. In my initial post I highlighted that these problems were universal and existed beyond Islamic and non-Islamic societies. African tribes are untainted by Abrahimic religions yet there is still a massive divide between them. Japanese people protesting against Korean immigration aren't doing so because they oppose the Koreans Islamic beliefs because the Koreans that are immigrating (I'd imagine) by and large aren't Muslim. Sikh's and Hindu's are immigrating largely from India, of which through colonialism the British imposed their cultural values, norms and traditions which have had a huge impact on Indian life. From India, the transition to Britain as far as cultural values go isn't as great, whereas immigration from somewhere like Pakistan where the people are much more influenced by the word of Allah and the teachings of the Quran, first and second generation immigrants may find it hard to assimilate immediately, if at all. The way in which immigration has occurred as well doesn't help. Mass migration means separate communities have formed which ultimately prevents integration.

 

The problem of multiculturalism will be solved when enough people live in multicultural societies. Look at places like London and compare them with small English towns with virtually no immigration. Once you go to school and make friends with a muslim guy/gal you soon realise that they are people too. To quote Jo *, we have far more in common than that which divides us.

 

I would've argued with you a year or so ago about that post but I've now come to same conclusion. If we are being honest, then we know that Islam in it's purist form can't coexist in a liberal society. Britain has changed for better in some ways and worse in other ways. Gay marriage and more liberal attitude means the UK is heading further away from where the Muslim community is heading; which is more religious and more conservative.

There are a number of reasons, obviously not just liberal attitudes (And I'm not blaming liberalism or gay unions) I'm just making the point that we are going in one direction and 2nd 3rd generation religious Muslims the other.

The main reasons being that 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims are now far more likely to follow a more purist form of Islam and are more political than there elders. Foreign policy has also lead to their anger in Muslim communities. Our government have poured petrol on the fire, and with the racial and religious segregation that has been allowed to happen we now have Muslim communities in Luton and so on who along with the non-Muslims do all they can to avoid each other in some towns and major cities.

I don't blame Muslims for the problems in UK or Islam I blame the governments that allowed us to get in this state who basically made one huge mistake after another after another.