Multiculturalism - has it failed?

Yes, which is actually a crucial point. People in the higher-immigrant areas (again, even ethnic Swiss) tend to have a more realistic idea of what it entails, which is why they unsuccessfully voted against the measure. The imagery used by the SVP did not fit the reality of the scenario, which was terribly sad. It has effected the Swiss university system and skilled/technical industries quite negatively.

 

Totally agree

 

What is the definition of "successful integration"?

Those who prevent or resent integration would likely be intolerant people anyway. As a decendant of irish/catholic immigration into a country which was 'White, British and Protestant'. I would like to think I am integrated. Infact, my good friends are a mixture of scottish atheists; Pakistani Muslims; non religious Asians; white jewish amongst others.

 

Multiculturalism is critical for a healthy, vibrant, diverse and innovative society/culture, imo. But there has to be a balance maintained with regard to immigration. Get that balance right and everyone wins, well apart from xenophobes.
If it wasn't for immigration I wouldn't be here and many, many others can say the same thing. It introduces diversity to a population which is important in many ways.

 

It is perhaps being forced onto people quicker than is ideal, but in the long run, it is the only hope for mankind.

It is only a matter of time before some lunatic lets off an atomic weapon or chemical or biological weapon based on his 'beliefs' or whatever. The sooner we come to terms with the fact we are all the same, (underneath the crap) the better.

 

Germans, Italians and Portguese are the largest groups. There's also a lot of people from Albania, Kosovo, Serbia and Croatia. Africans tend to live in the west, since they speak french there as well.

 

You can look it up. the SVP dominates in areas where education is lower. in other words: the higher your education the less likely you vote for them. simple as that.

I don't have a problem because their opinions differ from mine. I have a problem because they publicly lie on national television and newspapers. they create a toxic atmosphere for no reason. that to me is propaganda.

they exaggergate and overrate their power and importance. they are a loud minority.

I Still stand by my point, that we have a peaceful multiculti-society in Switzerland, despite a few negative opinions. Nothing is perfect and there's always people complaining about anything.

your question should be whether humans have failed or not.

 

I'm with Makaveli and Dáibhí on this. We are already culturally mixed and have been for centuries. To view migration and the mixing of cultures/people as a recently occured problem is plain stupid. Especially if it comes from someone living in the UK - a grand ole empire who rose to prominence thanks to colonialism and transatlantic slavetrade. Without colonialism, many countries would not suffer from poverty or lack of democracy and people wouldn't feel they had to seek out better lives in the west.

 

Big time

 

How long did it take you to come up with that?

A dazzling and lengthy prose, hats off to you.

 

Well considering the vast vast majority of people live side by side in peace I would say it has been a roaring success. So what if some cultures tend to stick with their own, they aren't hurting anyone.

 

theoretically it should. It only works if immigrants integrate into the host society.


multiculturalism has failed in Sweden and Germany and will destroying them.

 

What would you consider "integrating into the host society"?

If you mean getting a job/opening a business, paying tax, and generally contributing to said society then the vast majority are doing exactly that.

 

If you had asked the majority of Americans if multi culturism was working during the time when loads of immigrants were arriving at their shores alot would have answered no.

The Irish in particular took alot of flack and were the victims of a lot of rascism, but these days being Irish is very much celebrated over there. It takes time and cultures will clash but eventually people will integrate.

When things arent going well people will more often than not blame immigrants or people on welfare but its not the people with the least power that are shafting you.

 

learning the language, working, contributing something positive e.t.c

 

Which is what most of them do, isn't it? Just like I said.

 

In Sweden? Hmmmmm...

48% of immigrants in Sweden of working age don't work, 42% of long-term unemployed people in Sweden are immigrants, 58% of all welfare payments go to immigrants (who make up 16% of the population), first and second generation immigrants make up the majority of people charged for serious crimes, immigrants from the third world are 5x more likely to be charged with and convicted for * crimes (Sweden now has the highest rape rate in the devloped world)...

 

Well, I never mentioned Sweden in particularly, did I? Hmmmmmm...

Anyway...

According to this study between 20-30% of immigrants to Sweden during the 2000's had a primary level education, which didn't help when they were looking for jobs. As you can imagine, most people migrate to try and improve their lives, so it makes sense that those with less will jump at the opportunity.

However, recent stats have seen a surprising change...

A large slice of recent arrivals to Sweden have a post-secondary education, and this has led to more immigrants finding jobs quicker on arrival, and those who do find jobs on arrival "were more likely than natives to work in professional occupations" and had "high average earnings", which means more tax being paid, right?

Over time, newcomers to Sweden have "improved their employment rates, displayed income growth similar to natives, and moved into middle-skilled positions".

Employment rates have increased among immigrants by over 40% in the last decade in Sweden, and continues to rise today.

Between 2002 and 2011 immigrant share in middle-skilled jobs has risen from 15% to 34%, which is pretty substantial.

 

No but Celtic Serbia mentioned Sweden and you replied to him. They're the best example to use because they're so far gone down the line.

I clicked on that study there... 'funded by the European Union'

We can only hope for the Swedes sake that those figures are true and paint a pretty picture for the future. I think the task is going to get more and more difficult in the coming years as the numbers increase, it seems though looking at polling, less Swedes are willing to find out if everything ends up rosy.

 

No, they're the best example to use because they've provided the stats required to back up your agenda, right?

The truth is, much like the Irish and the Italians when they made their way to the US, it takes a few generations to settle in fully, but as time passes people make lives for themselves and it becomes a non-issue.

That report suggests that immigrants are becoming more and more able to hit the ground running as time passes and they appear more clued in on how to get their act together quicker when they arrive in a new country.

You may not like that, but the facts back it up.

Hmmmmm...