Muhammad Ali

Upon seeing the error of his ways it would have been a decent gesture had he personally apologised to Frazier for what he put him & his family through.

I think the lack of an apology is what annoyed Smokin' Joe more than anything else in later years.

 

Yes i could do that, but id have thought it would be easier for you to stay out the thread if you want to bring him down, and maybe leave your points until another time....they have been discussed before you know!

I feel drawn to the thread right now as i want to read the thoughts of others feeling similar to myself, so its hard to not read someones comments, and even harder to not be defensive when reading them.

 

Well, react as you see fit, but I think it does the man an injustice to simply follow the line that the majority of media outlets are taking and heaping praise on him.

If his mindset in his later years is to be believed I doubt he'd have much issue with people calling into question his behaviour during his career as a boxer.

As I said though, if you don't want to discuss it or you want to jump back in on it later then feel free to do so.

 

Whit???
How do you think we all know of his barnies and abuse of Frazier, or his racist stuff? Everyone knows about it...there is no whitewash!

When a member of your family dies, do you want people to focus on his negative side?? Of course you dont....people feel something, (obviously not you)and actually are trying to mourn a bit and you are being an * in this thread and im sure i am not the only one just a bit * off you are spoiling the thread...which pretty much is a an unofficial tribute thread is it not?
Im sure ive seen plenty of posts from mods in other tribute threads asking people to be respectful of the tone of the thread and to not deliberately try and wind people up....which is what you are doing right now.

 

"I said a lot of things in the heat of the moment that I shouldn't have said. Called him names I shouldn't have called him. I apologise for that. I'm sorry. It was all meant to promote the fight."

"The world has lost a great champion. I will always remember Joe with respect and admiration. My sympathy goes out to his family and loved ones."

"I'm sorry Joe Frazier is mad at me. I'm sorry I hurt him. Joe Frazier is a good man, and I couldn't have done what I did without him, and he couldn't have done what he did without me. And if * ever calls me to a holy war, I want Joe Frazier fighting beside me. "

"I heard somethin' once. When somebody asked a marathon runner what goes through his mind in the last mile or two, he said that you ask yourself, 'Why am I doin' this?' You get so tired. It takes so much out of you mentally. It changes you. It makes you go a little insane. I was thinkin' that at the end. Why am I doin' this? What am I doin' in here against this beast of a man? It's so painful. I must be crazy. I always bring out the best in the men I fight, but Joe Frazier, I'll tell the world right now, brings out the best in me. I'm gonna tell ya, that's one helluva man, and * bless him."

 

Anyone else I've engaged with has been civil and discussed the topic rationally. Except you.

Like I said, feel free not to reply, then I won't have to reply back.

And this isn't a "Tribute thread", it's a discussion thread in the pub section of a football forum. If you want something beautiful and untouched by people who offer more input and discussion than simply "RIP the greatest ever" then start a blog or something.

 

Yeah, the only unfortunate thing is that he didn't say that to Frazier.

Joe was asked about that and said that Ali never said anything to him personally, which is what he always wanted. He only said those kinds of things during media interviews.

When Ali was asked if he'd apologise to Frazier personally, he told the reporter to tell Joe that he's "still a gorilla".

The whole thing was * up, and left to fester much longer than it should have, and in the end the opportunity for amends to be made were lost when Joe passed away.

A sad state of affairs.

 

I have been civil, just a bit forthright. Anyway you win, i will let you go back to arguing about his flaws and i will go elsewhere to find somewhere only well wishers are contributing.

 

There's no argument, there's been a bit of discussion back & forth between me and a few others. Even some people agree with me and have said as much, whilst others have offered differing viewpoints and opinions.

Look, if you want a thread that is tailored to your own specifications then you're best to probably look elsewhere. A public forum like this is always going to draw a bit of discussion, especially when you're talking about a polarising figure like Ali.

 

Man has such a great voice for narrating stories, documentaries etc.

 

It's a fair criticism and one I can't really explain away. I'd like to think Ali regretted not making amends with Frazier but it's impossible to say. There was definitely bitterness both ways, and the relationship was anything but cordial, Frazier said something along the lines of Ali's Parkinson's disease being a form of retribution, and this came at a time when they were both retired and didn't have any mind games to play against each other.

 

Great man...

A fighter in every sense of the word..

RIP.

 

He did try his hardest to duck that fight though, before it happened. There's also a reason there was no rematch. If they fought again, I'm 99% sure Foreman would of destroyed him. He wanted nothing to do with it. Ali was to fight the winner of Norton and Foreman, and you can hear him shouting in the crowd 'come on kenny' etc.

All his antics before the foreman fight were ridiculous. Pretty scummy in all honesty, the same with Frazier.

 

Yeah, I mentioned that earlier. Have you seen the Frazier documentary called "when the smoke clears"? You hear from both him and one of his children, and the way they describe it the whole situation had quite a lasting effect on them.

Like I said, death threats were frequent, and the kids faced a terrible time of it.

 

Come on Daibhi you can't say Ali meant for anything bad to happen to his kids.

 

I'm not saying that, but I am saying that as a black man in America at that time, especially considering that he had a similar upbringing to Frazier, he must have known the repercussions of what he was doing.

*, he spent a lot of his life fighting against racism only to go and subject a fellow black man to that kind of *? And for what? To sell a fight?

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnzofi_QltI[/ame]

 

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