Messi is not the greatest

So if Messi had chosen to play for Spain, like he could of, would that of made him the greatest of all time?

Imo the world cup argument is bullshit, the world cup isn't what it was, the pinnacle of world football is the champions league, it is where most of the elite players play.There are alot of top players who won't play in a world cup, can guarantee they will appear in the champions league though.

 

Almost a goal a game. He must have been at least almost as good as Messi?

 

Still adds to a players greatness if he can win a World Cup though.

If Messi won the next World Cup then everyone would say thats it a fact which it probably would be.

 

He only ever played twice against European Club teams in official games too in the Intercontinental Cup against the European Champions Benfica where he scored 5 goals in 2 games, including a hat-trick in the away game in Lisbon and against AC Milan, the European Champions were he scored 2 in the away game in Milan, he missed the home game with injury.

Some people say he never done it in Europe(even though the Brazilian League was home to some of the best players in the World like Nilton and Djalma Santos, Garrincha, Tostao, Carlos Alberto, Jairzinho, Zico, Rivelino etc when he actuall scored 7 goals in 3 games against the European Champs.

 

Pele played part time players in the world cup.

If he(Pele) played today he wouldn't be the best. He wouldn't be in the top 3 best players in my opinion.

 

Pele did not win 3 world cups, it was the Brazilian team that won them. He was lucky he was a member of a class international team. The closest a player can come to saying he has won a world cup would be Diego Maradona.
For me Maradona was far superior to Pele.

 

Because he is 70+

 

Pele played against some of the greatest players to play the game and outshone the lot of them just like Maradona and Messi have also done.

 

Yeah it does to an extent, but I would say winning the champions league is a better achievment, in the sense it is harder to achieve. For example Capdevilla has won a European Championship and a world cup, not because he is a great player, but because he played in a ridiculously good team.

Can't see him ever winning one either, the European sides are too strong at this moment in time. Still won't change my opinion of him when he is no longer playing. He will be looked upon as the greatest ever when he calls it a day imo.

 

If Barcelona were allowed enter the World Cup and use their full squad, they should be good enough to win it.

 

You could say aswell though Djimi Traore won a Champions League and wont win a World Cup.

The World Cup is still really hard to win, even harder than the Champions League imo as the Champions League is every year. The World Cup most players will only see 4 maximum during their careers and the best teams/players usually always win it so unless you have players who are that great Xavi, Iniesta, Zidane, Desailly, Thuram, Pirlo, Cannavaro, Cafu, Rivaldo, Carlos, Ronaldo, Maradona, Burruchaga, Matthaus, Kohler, Voller, Romario, Zoff, Scirea, Kempes, Passarella, Vogts, Beckenbauer, Muller, Breitner, Pele, Jairzinho, Rivelino, Carlos Alberto, Nilton Santos, Djalma Santos, Garrincha, Charlton, Moore then your chances are limited.

Player like Cruyff, Platini, Zico, Socrates, couldnt win a World Cup.

If Zico had won a World Cup instead of Maradona it could be him considered up there with Pele.

 

Garrincha, Maradonna, Ronaldo, Best, Messi and Cruyff are better than you, get used to it.

 

Zico who was more of a midfielder than Messi or Maradona scored 400 goals in 578 official games for Flamengo, 30 goals in 53 games for Udinese and 52 goals in 74 games for Brazil.

So his official total is 482 goals in 705 games.

Zico actually scored more goals in his only full season in Italy than Maradona ever managed in 6 full seasons.

Zico also beat Maradona to the South American player of the year twice, to Maradonas one win over Zico. Zico won it 3 times to Maradonas 2.

 

Zico scored 22 goals for Udinese in 2 Seasons.
Maradona scored 81goals for Napoli.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zico

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Maradona

 

Zico still outscored him in his first season and better anything Maradona done scoring wise.

Ive seen the old World Cups and to me I couldnt seperate those two, if anything Zico was the player of more substance(the Messi) to Maradona's more flashy(Cristiano Ronaldo)

However Maradona won the World Cup, Zico never and the rest is history.

If Zicos Brazil fell on the easier side of the draw in 86 rather than Argentina Zico may have won it. But they landed on the side with Italy, Germany and France and Argentina got the side with no real potential winners.

 

Funny pele saying that when he himself isn't even the best ever, in my opinion anyway.

 

Winning a World Cup should not be the only measure of a players talent.
Just because Cruyff has not one a World Cup does not make him a lesser player than the hundreds of players who have.

However Maradonas performance in the 1986 World Cup must be the most dominant individual performances in the history of this tournament.

 

Personally would say Messi is better.

He plays in an era where coaching, fitness and professionalism are miles better all over the world.

Pele played in an era when football was largely an * sport and many developing countries couldn't tell their footballing arses from their elbow.

 

I know but it probably does in the case of Maradona and Zico.

Maradona is widely accepted as atleast one of the top 3 if not best of all time. Where as Zico isnt but even though they were really similar players, played just about the same time and Zico was arguably better during that time, he isnt awarded the same greatness that Maradona is because he never won the world cup.

He could have won it twice too, they were the best team and he was the best player in 82 but they failed and again in 86 they came down the side of the draw with France, Italy and Germany who were 3 of the 4 favourites along with Brazil and Argentina were given a path to the final against the likes of England and Belgium, good teams as they were they were never getting there if that was Brazil they'd have made the final too where as Argentina would have had to bypass the likes of France, Germany just to get there.

When they faced each other in 82 Zico showed Maradona how it was done with a goal and 2 assists in a masterclass.

They came up against each other 4 times, Zico won 3 and lost 1. Zico scored 4 and set 2 up and Maradona scored 2.