London is burning

Call it a QA article....because that's exactly what it is, my own personal opinion. So afford me the respect of being able to think for myself and express my own views.

I cannot actually believe you are trying to justify the crimes of looting, destruction of property, mass muggings etc on social conditions. * almost to a member every person on here has had it hard but were we all out on the street terrorizing our neighbours, destroying what they worked for and stealing from them? I think not.

Again I'll state the obvious. Blaming society for wanton criminal damage inflicted by gangs who coordinated their actions by using mobile phones and instant messaging is a complete * cop out and a straight out denial of the fact that for far too long kids in the UK have been educated to believe society owes them something and that if they sit around all day demanding, sooner or later someone will give them what they want.

It's wrong and a damning indictment of society as a whole.

 

Good grief....I honestly cannot believe you are trying to justify looting. Sorry but that is disgusting and there is no need for it. I'm pretty sure that if it was your business which had been raped and destroyed you wouldn't be looking for some pompous way around blaming outright greed and theft as the reasons you lost your livelihood.

 

It would be interesting to see if England use the same tactics as in Belfast-
Army.
Rubber Bullets etc- if it is good enough for Belfast (the Govt VIEW NOT mine)- why is is it taking so long to implement in London.

Wonder if the Hearts game will survive.

To be fair this is a total joke and they all need locking up!!!

I ain't a graet fan of the police , but they really are being asked to do a hard job here.

Yes let me stop you looting with my 'chocolate truncheon'.

Hopefully the Police can be given more authority and stop this today- they will be embarressed if it takes the army to sort this out.

This better not reach Bradford- 10 yrs since we had that * here- albeit for 'different reasons' ??? Whatever they were

 

jesus england-holland game called off!

these thugs and looters have shown what happens when greed and wealth are glorified and put on a pedestal above all else; in a way, they are no different from the bankers who have brought the world to its knees due to their greed and avarice; every society reaps what they sow and the riots now are the result of decades of being judged on what you have or dont have rather than what you stand for

thats not to say i condone the wanton acts of destruction; what does looting and burning down shops and homes achieve? people lives and livliehooods utterly destroyed....for what? a stolen tv?

the sad thing is, this is possibly going to drive more harsh powers into the hands of government and police, two institutions who have been exposed as utterly untrustworthy in recent years; did the rioters think of that? probably not

that theresa may is a stupid cow (just saw her on the tv)

 

People don't just riot without reason, you have to ask, why now? Obviously there was the initial unrest after Mark Duggan was shot although that was largely peaceful, the violence started after 7 (seven!) policemen beat a helpless teenage girl with batons whilst she lay on the ground. Of course it has escalated quite severely since then, and to an extent there are most likely some people who are just out to get a new TV or pair of trainers. But I really think we should be looking at the root of the problem, why it started, not just dismiss it as mindless thuggery, even though there is an element of that to it.

These people live in some of the most deprived areas of the countries, they watch the self serving privately educated political elite do what they please seemingly without consequence, stealing money in expenses, they watch bankers ruin the country’s economy and then be handed bonuses, bail outs and golden handshakes paid for by the tax payer, they see the top brass of the Metropolitan Police forced to resign as their corruption goes public. Our own Prime Minister and the Mayor of London spent their privileged youths trashing restaurants together, where is condemnation for that? Or is it OK because they are rich and it is all just a bit of fun?

These young people, particularly in the poorest areas of London don’t trust the system, and why should they? What has it ever done to help them? The gap between the rich and poor has never been larger, and is worsening by the day, and to make matters worse this is all happening amongst a backdrop of drastic cuts to almost everything, as businesses in these areas are forced to close and even more people are crammed into neighbourhoods that are already brutally overcrowded. How many billions on the Olympics? How many billions on wars in countries we have no business being in? Why not sort out our own back yard first. I’m sure those living in poverty would agree with me.

I don’t condone people burning others out of their houses and the looting is simply a symptom of rioting (not the other way round), but I think something like this has been a while coming, hopefully it will make people like David Cameron have a good hard look at himself, look at the policies which Nick Clegg ironically predicted would cause riots on the streets of London before the last General Election, but I doubt it. All I can see coming from this, sadly, is stronger arguments for things like ID cards.

 

Yep. As I said, it sounds like a Daily Mail article. Never did I say you could not have your own opinion and express your own views. You called my views 'disgusting'. Well they are my views, and as you said, could you please afford me the respect...? Cheers.

I'm not justifying any violence, looting, destroying of property, or any behavior that has been occurring the last 3 nights. In fact, the behavior itself is completely wrong, and yes, it is a sad indictment on our society. That is exactly my point.

Take a step back and consider the bigger picture here.

Our country is now at a stage where the top 10% are 100 times wealthier than the poorest, where consumerism predicated on personal debt has been pushed for years as the solution to a faltering economy, and where, according to the OECD, social mobility is worse than any other developed country. In fact, Haringey, the borough that includes Tottenham, has the fourth highest level of child poverty in London and an unemployment rate of 8.8%, double the national average, with one vacancy for every 54 seeking work in the borough.

So i'd argue there is a huge link between social conditions and this riot. As I said, happy communities don't riot. Not once did I justify the violence - I am merely stating there is a fundamental problem in our intrinsically flawed society, and something needs to be changed when people are acting in this horrible way on the very streets of the capital.

Education is the very most important thing for this not to happen again. Give the 'youth' prospects, a chance to get a job, some pride in their area, a cause, and this doesn't happen. Again, I will state the obvious... These things don't happen in so called middle class, richer areas, where people have the opportunity to get a good job, go to a good university etc.

I'm repeating myself here... I'm not saying the violence is a good thing and right. There is indeed no need for it; so let's tackle the cause instead of just saying 'bring out the water cannons', and 'just shoot at them'. Because of course that would solve the problem eh.

As an aside, a lot of double standards here. You can't openly call for plastic bullets and the likes to be used in London and then be so against it in Belfast. They should not be used full stop. Tackling brutality with more brutality is not right. The police can deal with it without using guns or 'killing the lot of them'.

QA, some of my own family and friends live in the area and have been severely affected by the trouble. I am angry this is happening, but equally as angry at the politicians making cuts, and the fact that whilst we are a rich society, there is any need for people to go out and commit such acts. It is not surprising that since the Tories got into power we have had student riots, 500,000 people marching for trade union rights, several strikes, and now this. Coincidence? I think not. Makes me think of a certain Thatcher character.

Anyway, I have no more to say on the subject, i've given my opinion and there we are. I hope everyone, including those i know and those on here, affected by the violence are ok and this all ends very quickly. In fact, its forecasted to rain on Thursday. That'll probably be the end of it.

 

I need a new TV, but I'm not looting.
Happy communities DO riot. Example:Football hooligans.
This has nothing to do with protestnymore IMO. These guys are just thugs.

You go out to the people whose houses been burned down and whos shops been looted and you a tell them:"Don't blame them, they're just angry"

 

some insightful posts on here, i tend to agree that people need to look at the bigger picture here

i mean ffs just on the bbc news, they are darkly bemoaning the FTSE 100 losing a couple points this morning because of the riots; talk about priorities eh?

cameron due to make a statement soon, no doubt something like this...

 

TBH the FTSE dropping so severely is worrying, though it has stemmed more the world economic crisis rather than what has been going on today.

The fact that so many world economies may not be able to recover is frightening, it may result in these riots becoming more common place.

It really is a scary time we live in.

 

oh I agree but it was just the exaggerated sombre tone of the guy that got me; folk have been burned out of work and their homes yet this presenter was greetin' over a couple lost ftse points ffs

 

There is no excuse for the rioting and looting no matter what has happened.

They are complaining about jobs,etc but don't they realise that looting and damaging local business's isn't going to help the economy in the state that it is currently in?

To say it's all in the name of a guy who pulled a gun on a policeman and got shot isn't true, its a bunch of thugs taking advantage and using an excuse.

 

This is an excellent post. Well said Jezz and my thoughts entirely.

 

I can't take credit for it- it is not my work. But thanks :icon_mrgreen: I agree.

 

Interestingly, why are we so quick to condemn civil unrest in our own country and yet when people took to the streets in Athens, there seemed to be broad support? Strange

 

cameron on now

someone should ask him whats the difference between the rioters and ex bullington club members such as him

 

lets be honest here

a lot of the rioters are black

and they are not doing themselves any favours

like was said last night this is like a BNP wet dream

people can look at the bigger picture all they want BUT look at the * job centre plus website. There is thousands of jobs at the minute - but people don't want to do them. I come from a council estate, * im in my 20's, just started Uni and im a kitchen porter to help pay bills. iv started at the bottom. Folk here are just making excuses, you can do be whatever you want to be, it just takes WILLPOWER and PATIENCE. The Government, and society is not perfect but these cowards and weak minded individuals are looking for quick fixes. Wake up people and start living in the real world. These guys are just thugs.

i will say a lot of turkish and muslim gangs helped defend shops in london last night apparently, maybe the BNP and people in london should bare that in mind

 

Interesting point, did not think about this.

Anyway, how will this end? Will Cameron bring in the First Batallion of the Parachute Regiment?

 

Possibly because they were a result of government policy, and cuts. This is ..well * knows what this is tbh. What started as a justified protest has escalated in to senseless violence. You go and ask the looters why they are doing this and they will not all have the same reason.

When the people act under one voice, such as in Greece, its easier to garner sympathy. What is happening now is greed pure and simple.

 

This is not "civil unrest" it's theft and larceny on a grand scale.
Just wondering what Curry's, O2, T-Mobile, Orange, Halfords, HMV and small business have to do with the state of our economy? Tell my how they are responsible for the high unemployment rate, poor levels of education and general lawlessness in our youth?
If this was "civil unrest" as you call it (like in Greece and Egypt where their actions are targeted at their governments with little to no looting) why are they not burning down the banks, Houses of Parlaiment and MP's second homes?

Has * all to do with politics and everything to do with a free TV/phone/trainers.

 

I would put my wages on an army presence on Londons streets very soon, 16,000 police officers will take to the streets tonight with a battle mentality and will be very heavy handed.

IMO this may be a little too late to prevent "a state of emergency". The world is watching and I would have thought that if, as people are saying, there is no real political message here then surely those with a message to be heard, will be seeing this as a golden oppertunity.

When you create an underclass through the politics of Ideology and marginalise large swathes of society, one day it will come home to roost. This is not about a new TV or a pair of trainers.