Lennon Calls For An End To Offensive Chanting

What rubbish!

The police nor the SFA have done such thing.

 

My apologies. It WILL be handed out.

 

And when it eventually does, I'd bet that there are very few composed rebel songs on it.

Further to that, what actually constitutes a rebel song to some people?

Is it OK to sing, for example Crossmaglen, because it doesn't mention, specifically, IRA, where as a song like The Patriot Game would be outlawed because it does.

The whole argument and debate is absolute nonsense. Irish rebel songs are all about love, hope and rememberance without being bigoted or sectarian in any way.

You can order Irish rebel albums from Woolworths or HMV and listen to them without any guilt, but we can't sing them? That would be bizarre.

Irish culture is accepted, even celebrated, all over the world. Only in Scotland does it seem to be a crime to express it. I think it's actually a bit hypocritical for an SNP government to try to criminalise songs from the Irish rebellion while singing Scots Wha Hae at the end of their conferences. Google the lyrics for this and you'll see that it is much more militaristic and violent in sentiment than any Irish song that I know.

 

Hmmm....change your tune quickly...

Strathclyde police nor the SFA will be handing out any ban lists now, or in the future....clubs will (if they decide to do so)...

I posted this yesterday.....


I e-mailed Strathclyde Police a couple of weeks ago, regarding a story in the newspapers over clubs being asked to issue 'banned' song sheets:


FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]I refer to your correspondence of 13 April 2011, which was received by Strathclyde Police on that date.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]I wish to receive a copy of any official documentation which includes which specific "songs" being sung can be punishable by arrest, and more individually as to why the song "Boys of the Old Brigade" is now being deemed as a sectarian and/or offensive song – which according to newspaper reports published today – will be met with prosecution?
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Your request for information has now been considered and I can advise you that Strathclyde Police does not hold any of the information requested by you. In terms of Section 17 of the Act, this letter represents a formal notice that information is not held.
By way of explanation, Strathclyde Police is committed to dealing with conduct at football matches that is sectarian or racist in nature. At fixtures where this type of behaviour is assessed as being likely to occur, the match-day operation will include the deployment of a dedicated team of officers whose role is to target offenders engaged in hate crime. These operations are intelligence led, with officers targeting specific areas or groups of supporters within the stadium. To date this approach has been successful and significant numbers of arrests have been made for such offences throughout the season. However, we are aware of the need to continuously improve our strategy which we will adapt and evolve as we strive to deal robustly with behaviour that has no place in 21st century Scotland.
Strathclyde Police has received several letters expressing concern in relation to the singing of unacceptable songs at this and previous fixtures and there has been significant press coverage. Our forward planning for every fixture takes account of such behaviour and you should be assured of our continuing efforts in this regard, however I trust that you will appreciate the practical difficulties when literally thousands of people join in a particular song or chant. That said, Strathclyde Police has made clear publicly on many occasions that this type of conduct is completely unacceptable and Strathclyde Police gives a firm undertaking to arrest persons engaged in such behaviour.
Susan McGinlay
As a result of the conduct of players, coaching staff and fans at previous fixtures this season, Strathclyde Police sought what has been described as a football summit, involving the Scottish Government, Football Authorities, clubs and Police. One of the many important areas which the summit participants want to address is the continuing issue of sectarianism and Strathclyde Police will take the lead on this particular work stream.
Sectarian singing is a challenging issue to address and Strathclyde Police has in the past been asked to endorse a list of songs that were either ‘approved’ or ‘banned’. We are however unable to do this, given the nuances involved in sectarian songs or chants and the manner in which certain football supporters can corrupt songs or chants to convey a sectarian message. However as part of the ongoing process to tackle sectarianism, football clubs and supporters associations will be asked to identify songs which they deem are representative and acceptable to their club. Strathclyde Police will of course provide guidance throughout this process.
Please be assured that Strathclyde Police is fully committed to robustly tackling all forms of hate crime along with our partners within the football clubs, football authorities and supporters associations. There is now more that ever, a greater focus on hate crime and sectarianism in general and it is incumbent upon us all to play our part. We expect the football authorities to play a prominent role, with Scottish Premier League match delegates paying particular attention and reporting sectarian behaviour evident during matches.
In closing, I trust that you will be reassured that the prevention of violence, disorder and all forms of hate crime which sometimes are associated with this match, while challenging, is a significant priority for this Force. The sectarian singing witnessed recently is absolutely unacceptable and is an area that Strathclyde Police will proactively target and seek to make significant improvements at future fixtures.
I hope this information is helpful, however, if you are not satisfied with the way in which your request has been dealt with, you are entitled in the first instance to request a review of the decision made by the Force. Should you wish to request such a review, please write to Mrs Sheena Brennan, Disclosure Manager at the above address within 40 working days of receiving this letter. Once informed of the Review Panel’s decision, if you are still not satisfied, then you are entitled to apply to the Scottish Information Commissioner within six months for a decision. Contact details are; Office of the Scottish Information Commissioner, Kinburn Castle, Doubledykes Road, St Andrews, Fife, KY16 9DS, telephone 01334 464610.
I should like to take this opportunity to thank you for your interest in Strathclyde Police. Should you require any further assistance concerning this matter please contact me directly on 0141 435 1217 quoting the reference number given.
Yours Sincerely
Sergeant

[/FONT][/FONT]

 

The Police/SFA don't decide what's legal. That has already been sorted out a few weeks ago when Les Grey tried to criminalise BOTOB all by himself.

 

Irish rebel songs are fine. You're right Scots Wha Hae, Flower of Scotland etc. are rebel songs as well. I guess it will be ones that are clearly about the IRA and some of the genuine IRA songs may suffer because people lump all the IRAs together. So when you sing about pre PIRA, IRA some people won't be able to differ between them both. Blame that on the likes of the PIRA

 

Well said


<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD><DL><DD>Original lyrics in Scots</DD><DD>'Scots, wha hae wi' Wallace bled,</DD><DD>Scots, wham Bruce has aften led,</DD><DD>Welcome tæ yer gory bed,</DD><DD>Or tæ victorie.</DD></DL></TD><TD><DL><DD>English translation</DD><DD>'Scots, who have with Wallace bled,</DD><DD>Scots, whom Bruce has often led,</DD><DD>Welcome to your gory bed</DD><DD>Or to victory.</DD></DL></TD></TR><TR><TD><DL><DD>'Now's the day, and now's the hour:</DD><DD>See the front o' battle lour,</DD><DD>See approach proud Edward's power -</DD><DD>Chains and Slavery.</DD></DL></TD><TD><DL><DD>'Now is the day, and now is the hour:</DD><DD>See the front of battle lower (threaten),</DD><DD>See approach proud Edward's power -</DD><DD>Chains and slavery.</DD></DL></TD></TR><TR><TD><DL><DD>'Wha will be a traitor knave?</DD><DD>Wha will fill a coward's grave?</DD><DD>Wha sæ base as be a slave?</DD><DD>Let him turn and flee.</DD></DL></TD><TD><DL><DD>'Who will be a traitor knave?</DD><DD>Who will fill a coward's grave?</DD><DD>Who's so base as be a slave? -</DD><DD>Let him turn, and flee.</DD></DL></TD></TR><TR><TD><DL><DD>'Wha, for Scotland's king and law,</DD><DD>Freedom's sword will strongly draw,</DD><DD>Freeman stand, or Freeman fa',</DD><DD>Let him on wi me.</DD></DL></TD><TD><DL><DD>'Who for Scotland's King and Law</DD><DD>Freedom's sword will strongly draw,</DD><DD>Freeman stand or freeman fall,</DD><DD>Let him follow me.</DD></DL></TD></TR><TR><TD><DL><DD>'By Oppression's woes and pains,</DD><DD>By your sons in servile chains!</DD><DD>We will drain our dearest veins,</DD><DD>But they shall be free.</DD></DL></TD><TD><DL><DD>'By oppression's woes and pains,</DD><DD>By your sons in servile chains,</DD><DD>We will drain our dearest veins</DD><DD>But they shall be free.</DD></DL></TD></TR><TR><TD><DL><DD>'Lay the proud usurpers low,</DD><DD>Tyrants fall in every foe,</DD><DD>Liberty's in every blow! -</DD><DD>Let us do or dee.</DD></DL></TD><TD><DL><DD>'Lay the proud usurpers low,</DD><DD>Tyrants fall in every foe,</DD><DD>Liberty is in every blow,</DD><DD>Let us do or die!</DD></DL></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

Only from past tense to future tense. It still stands.

 

In the e-mail i sent to Strathclyde Police, they have clearly refused to say that BOTOB is sectarian

 

Eh?

 

I know Irish rebel songs are fine. Only an idiot would argue otherwise.

All rebel songs are CLEARLY about the IRA. It just seems, to me, that people rate the degree of offensiveness on whether the TLA is actually included in the songs lyrics.

 

We do sing about the PIRA ... the roll of honour is about 8 PIRA & 2 INLA men who sacrificed there lives in the H Blocks for Ireland.. Martyrs & heroes each & every one of them... & i wont stop singing about them just to please others.

 

To get back to the original post, I do not think that Lenny/Celtic in any way were referring to Irish songs. Rebel, whatever that means, or otherwise.

Sadly, the statement has given a section of our support reason to interpret it for their own agendas.

 

This is a mess, people are just arguing in circles.

To take a simple view of the situation. Don't shout "IRA" in the middle of our songs because it may offend some people and we want to defend ourselves from anyone who may accuse us of being sectarian even though we know it isn't.

Make sense?

 

Yes, a lot.

Sing the songs, don't shout indiscriminate chants/slogans.

I think that's what the statement is all about.

 

the statement basically says dont bring shame on our club. i was told by my father when i wore my hoops top i was an ambassador for celtic so stay out of trouble and dont bring shame on the club.

 

You've restored my faith mate.....keep up the good work, and always remember be a Proud Irishman!! Almost breaking into the Streets of New York there!!

Your post was fantastic because it is true.

 

^^^ As my Dad taught me 40 odd years ago.

The songs which sections of our support sing should not bring shame on the club from anywhere, let alone other sections of our support.

A social conscience is what makes our club special. It is what it is bourne out of.

People say that there is no place for politics inside a football stadium. I say the exact opposite. Football and politics are inextricably linked all over the world. Politics and sociology have made football what it is. It has created what we are discussing right now.

 

The war criminal can shove his list.

He used to sing most of them

 

In a game away to Stirling Albion in 1972 at Annfield Jock left his dugout and waded into the Celtic supporters in an effort to stop “political signing”. Afterwards he said:

“Surely there are enough Celtic songs without introducing religion or politics or anything else?”
​

Confronting Celtic supporters in this way was a huge gamble for Jock Stein. He was applauded by the majority of the Celtic support that day at Annfield, but his pleas to keep songs about politics away from Celtic were drowned out. A new generation had different ideas about Celtic.