Ki

I think you do a disservice to those that watch and play the game but don't agree with your very narrow minded view.

I could argue the opposite that not understanding what Ki can bring to the team would mean you don't understand football, but then that would be very hypocritical of me, i keep a balanced view or at least i try to, football can be interpreted in more ways than one.

There is no set way on how to play or understand football, some fans love technical players, others prefer more physical players, doesn't mean one is right and the other wrong.

 

Well, I don't agree.
I believe History is always important, both to judge if this is just a temporary slump or not, and to predict the future. Besides in previous posts, you mentioned not only the current team but also the future Korean team. You said Korea is simply far inferior to Japan and Japan will dominate and Korea young boys just don't match. So I mentioned about the history again, because history(overall record) shows that our boys do have enough power and potentials. Besides, I don't even think our young boys will be just sleeping peacefully while japanese players are improving. the ball is round and nobody knows what will happen in future, that's what I think. And I really don't think even the current Korean football team is Far inferior to Japan team.(even though you really don't rate almost all Korean players in abroad.)

I think our prime time in football hasn't even begun and i believe our young boys that they will bloom well enough like we have been doing in many parts through history.

You don't have to worry about my bothering. Probably and hopefully this will be my last post. Think said enough, heard enough.

 

Your comment went as follows "If you look at the players who make up both the Scottish and Korean national team I feel anyone but the biggest fans of the korean national team would be hard pressed to say Korea has better players. Korea has Lee Chung Yong, Park from Man U, and Park Chu-Yong from Arsenal, those are their only good players." No mention of world beaters in fact they are refered to as the less than impressive "good players"

You also said " The average players in the Scotland team generally play in the EPL, for us or Rangers, or in the Championship (all a much higher level than the Japanese or Korean League.) "
For me this statement would seem to link a players ability with the club he plays for and was why I brought to your intention the other Korean players playing in Europe

 

Good enough young players but apart from Forrest it is unlikely that more than 1 (if even 1) would make our starting eleven. Any of the Scottish based players on that list were well within our budget yet the only one we showed interest in was Russell and if we had really wanted him we would have easily been able to come up with a package that would have seen him wearing the hoops today.

 

The difficulty with that comment is that Ki doesnt really fall into either category. There is a myth that he is a technical player, but in what respect? That he can ping a 30 yard cross field ball? Or that he can play a short sideways pass? Calling someone a technical player is more often than not a way of excusing their other failings. For me Ledley is a far more rounded player than Ki, as is Brown and Wanyama will be. Ledley and Brown have both been courted by EPL clubs in the past, so they must be rated.

I neither prefer technical or physical players, though if your suggesting that the rest of the midfielders are simply physical your showing them a lack of respect. Ultimately I will judge a player based on what they bring to the game and our club, and there is no argument that Ki has not delivered what has been promised.

Football is all about opinions, but the performances are a clear indication of a players worth. The last couple of games have seen Ki, who is supposed to be this technical wonderkid fail against our biggest rivals and a lesser side in two big games. He wasnt the only one, but the expectation of him is big. And thats why I dont rate him. Because more often than not he lets us down.

I also dont think he will make it elsewhere either and will end up back in an asian league somewhere. I will be astounded if an EPL club come in for him in the summer. Though delighted to get a fee for him.

 

Ki has been courted by several EPL teams as well.


Ki has by far the superior first touch and ball-trapping in our midfield. Of course that is my opinion but i think the problem with Ki is that he just doesn't suit the Scottish game at all. He will show his credentials and talents in the Serie A or La Liga or even the EPL. Where brute force and drive is not an essential attribute for a CM.

 

I just think every part of every post you make about Ki is so wrong on so many different levels.

First of, he is not technical? He has one of the highest passing accurancy rates in the British Leagues! Don't for one minute tell me it is not considered a technical element of football, because it is. His passing might not be direct but that is how he is TOLD to play by the coaching staff.

If you watch Ki play for the national team, or his FC Seoul highlights, he has a real gift when it comes to playing defence splitting passes with pinpoint accuracy.

His other great ability is to open himself up a yard or two of extra space, with very little effort. It is something not a lot of people seem to notice, but trawl through youtube or watch when he next plays, he might not be as direct as a lot of our players, but he can open himself up a tonne of space with clever moving and turns.

He is not being afforded the same treatment as our other young players, Matthews, Forrest and the likes, who play 1 good game in 3 or 4 yet Ki comes on or plays half a match here and there, no consistant run in the team and yet he gets pelters from the likes of you, constantly.

Take half an hour out your day, watch some highlights of him online and tell me again, that he is not a technically gifted player. I would go as far to say as the most talented player we have at our club, with the highest potential.

In my view, his biggest issue is that the management is not getting the best out of him with tactics. The role he was played in at the first game of the season against hibs, was a free roaming from the back to forward midfield that dictates the game with a wide range of passing. He done that well and got MOM. In europe he is played the same was often and in the bigger matches he is asked to do the same however he is not getting a solid run out, and the stop starting seems to be a valid excuse for Commons not performing, but again... It is one rule for one, and one for the other.

I can only say, thank * your not part of the management of our team, you might be able to put yourself across well on a forum, but you know heehaw about footballers and talent.

 

He is not given the same amount of credit as Forrest or Matthews because he is not as consistent as them. He is also, as you have said, an "experienced" international so we should expect him to be leading by example.

And how many times do we see him playing defence splitting passes? Really. I am a season ticket holder and I see him playing sideways passes all day long, but defence splitting? I genuinely would struggle to think of one. I do remember Joe Ledleys against the Orcs last January for Samaras to score though.

Why would I be interested in how he plays for Seoul or the national side? Anyone can look good in highlight reels, we have seen that in the past. I am only judging him on his time at Celtic.

If anyone also thinks that La Liga, Serie A or the EPL arent physical leagues then they really are deluded. The teams in these leagues are big strong and combine it with technical ability at the highest level.

In football you have to earn the right to play, and that means hard work, graft and discipline. Look at the best players in the world, they work their socks off. Im not saying Ki doesnt, but he needs to up his game and he needs to be more consistent.

And as for your last point, I would handle Ki the exact same way that Lennon has. Play him when necessary due to injuries to Wanyama, Ledley, Brown or Kayal.

I admire your love for him, and when he pulls on a shirt I want him to perform to his best also, but the facts are that he isnt consistent enough. That is ultimately why he doesnt get a run.

 

as above really, when given the run that is required like Sammy they actually perform well

 

Sammy took nearly two seasons to perform, despite getting a regular run on many an occasion. Quite often at the expense of our other goalscorers.

Ki has been here for over two years now and played 80 odd games, to suggest he is not treated well or been given a chance just isnt true. Seems a lot of people like to make him out to be a victim when he is just inconsistent.

And the big leagues ARE more physical in the sense that they are more intense, played at a faster pace and the players work rate is greater. I dont mean it in the sense that they are just physically stronger, which, in Ki's case, they are as well.

He is not consistent, and, in my opinion not good enough to command a regular berth in the centre of the park. The last two big games are evidence of that.

 

he has been here almost for 3 seasons, and he has been played on and off never really given a consistant run in the team which can throw a player off, when he has gottne a good run in the team like at the start of last season, the end of last season and the start of this season he has been one of our best players

 

they might not make our starting 11 now but i have high hopes for mcgeough and i believe allen is going to be a great player. Russell imo will also be a player who if we don't snap him up quickly will be plying his trade at a much higher level than celtic in the near future.

 

Matthews and Forrest have been far more consistent than Ki this year and therefore don't take as much flak for poor performances. Also they are both 3 years younger than Ki and therefore should get more slack for bad performances. You expect inconsistency from a 20 year old wideman, you cannot afford inconsistency from a 23 year old central midfielder.

 

I hope your right about McGeough and I too would like us to sign Russell but these players are still a step away from making it at a top level team.
I also have seen too many players not reach the potential expected to count my chickens.

 

No, he signed in August 2009 and came to the club in Jan 2010 right? Thats just over two years ago. 80 games in two years, 60 of them as a start is plenty in my opinion. Yeah, he has done well in some of them, but thats the problem. Something comes along and he is out.

An illness, playing for his country. Whatever. Always a reason for his poor form.

He has had more than enough opportunities to cement a place.

 

I mentioned the players I deem good from both national teams, by good I meant better than average international class players. To me none of the players you mentioned are above average international class players.

Obviously a player should not be rated by the club they play for (especially young players) but the fact that Korea's national team is filled with relatively old players who still play in Korea wouldn't make European opposition shake with fear. At some point great players go to better teams; a young player playing for a midtable SPL could go on to be a great player, a player plying his trade in Korea in his late 20's probably isn't anything special.

 

this is basically what i'm getting at when he plays and is given an extended run in the team he does prove his worth I use Sammy as his example as Ki kinda comes across as a confidence player hence when given the extended his confidence increases he makes runs and finds dangerous shooting space which at the start of the season saw him become our leading goal scorer from midfield and was reaping praise from all of us here.

all i would like is Ki to get the recognition his efforts deserve as they seem to get easily forgotten about the moment he gets dropped and starts to become a bit part player being used for the last 20 mins here and there and unable to really put his stamp on a game with little time to do it in

 

I will not respond to this point as I am surprised both of us have not been warned for going off the point as this is the Ki thread. I will just agree that we have different opinions on the strengths of the South Korean and Scottish national football teams.

 

he had a cracking game today from the first minute he was chasing every ball and looking dangerous and that is the ki that we need to see the majority of the time he plays

 

Agreed, Twardzick may be chasing his heels though as the extra man in midfield!