Ki

Japan asian cup champs 2011, 2004, 2000
korea last asian cup championship 1960
japan also have a better batch of young players coming through right now.

 

Egypt has won the 2008? i think it was, African cup. Does it make them better then Ivory Coast or Ghana?.
http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/s...n/index.htmx?sm=01&sy=2010&em=03&ey=2012&rd=3

Japan v Korea stats for the past two years.

 

History is always relevent. Especially when we are bhoys.

 

Once again. Young Korean players just cannot compete in europe against other Countrymen because of their military responsibilty.

 

actually its not at all relevant to this debate which has been dragged off topic but my original comment that sparked this long debate about the quality of the Korean national team was that there weren't many good Korean players other than those who were injured or not playing and therefore Ki's POTY award doesn't mean as much as some make out. The history of Hamburg is irrelevant to this debate, they are a poor side now and therefore making their bench is no great achievement and certaintly a player making the bench for Hamburg isn't a challenger for a POTY award.

 

And if young Koreans don't move to Europe they won't develop the skills to compete with the Japanese players who are playing at elite clubs. the Korean league simply isn't good enough to develop the world class players that Korea would require to compete with Japan. Imo Asian football will be dominated by the Japanese for years to come.

 

history should never be forgotten but should not be taken into account when comparing the relative strengths of teams in the present. Celtic are not capable of winning the european cup at the moment although they have an illustrious history. Hamburg are a massive german club but are * at the minute.

 

You don't care about the overall record(including the recent 5 yrs record)
and you say Japan is much better than Korea and Korea's young players just dont match up.

To my eyes you just seem to make a conclusion too rapidly, I personally believe there need at least more carefullness when you say 'A certain national team is much better(or, Far inferior to) another team.' At least you're not even a specialist in Korean football.

And also, like you have already said(You said Amerca's draw against England is just meaningless and it doesn't mean America is better than England,), One or two defeat(for example, in Asian Cup) does not mean that one team is(and will be) MUCH better than the other. Besides, if I remember right, we played well in Asian Cup, just unlucky to miss the champ.

I don't deny that Japan football is very good recently, It's just I just can't understand the way you define "Korean is FAR inferior to Japan," or "Korean Young players just don't match up."


And also, I just can't belive that I still have to talk about Korean national team on here, all this "Korean team is worse and POTY is meaningless" is for saying 'Ki is Never a good player' ?

 

Certain people here have been extremely disrespectful of Korean football. And that is not okay. Yes, recently Japan has been playing better than South Korea. However, i believe it isn't due to a gap in quality, but due to a better manager. South Korea can perform as good as Japan. All they need is a quality manager.

 

True to an extent. But K-league in its self is a decent league (perhaps the strongest in Asia, looking at the past afc champions league records). However many many korean young players do in fact go over to Europe and ply their trade for a while. But its incredibly difficult for them to actually carve out a professional career once they reach a certain age (i should have made this more clearer in the previous posts).

As for Japan dominating Asian football.... Well aren't they already? It's an oligopoly between Australia, Korea and Japan. But i personally do not think Japan is going to be a monopoly, both Korea and Australia have too many good players for that.

ANYWAY, why are we arguing about this is Ki thread?

 

The fact that you did not notice Augsburg were not in the Bundesliga does not give you much credibility when judging the strength of a German which you did when quoting players who are good enough to join Hamburg.

Whatever their current position Hamburg are one of the biggest clubs in Germany and you list lower level SPL players and english championship players who should make their squad.

When did the players become prospects. You stated " scotland has better players than them who don't make the squad " do not see any mention of the word prospect in your initial quote.

 

What i said is obviously my opinion and there isn't really anyway to prove it but I just see Japan as a rising force in Asian football while in my eyes both Korea and Australia are stagnating. The class of players Japan has is a cut above Korea in my opinion and therefore I rate the Japanese national team more than I do the Korean

 

I made a comment about how the Korean POTY wasn't as meaningful this year as most because of injuries and poor form to Korea's best players, this led to the debate about the quality of the korean national team which I agree with you isn't very relevant to Ki and whether or not he should be playing for us.

 

believe it or not I actually watch alot of Borussia Dortmund and I think I'm as qualified as you are to judge who could or could not suceed on a relegation threatened Bundesliga team. The fact that Hamburg are a big club is irrelevant in this debate becaue their playing staff is being analyzed, nothing but their playing staff matters. Most of the players I mentioned were around the same age as Son Heung-Min who at this moment in time usually starts marches on the bench for the mighty Hamburg. As a young player who sits the bench I would classify Son Heung-Min as a "prospect", that is why I listed several scottish prospects of near equal ability. Most of the prospects I mentioned are either on the books at better teams than Hamburg or will be shortly whenever they decide to move clubs.

Jung Jo-Gook Auxerre/Nancy is a much inferior player to Johnny Russell and is also a few years older so I don't see why you mentioned him in the first place.

Koo Ja-Cheol Wolfsburg/Augsburg - I obviously don't know much about him so I'll leave rating him up to others

Park Joo-Ho is nothing special, Lee wallace and Mulgrew are similar level fullbacks. Basel's success in the Champs league has been down to their core group of young Swiss players, quite a few of their players are very average.

 

[FONT=&#46027]If you said just like this way in your previous posts, I wouldn't ever try to post in here whether I agree with you or not. [/FONT]

[FONT=&#46027]Actually, I don't have that particular problem with the comments like "Ki is a * player" or criticisim of that level, even though I dislike the word "*". Because I could assume these comments would be mostly changed into the opposite if Ki go back to his best form again and do some brilliant performance. [/FONT]

[FONT=&#46027]But I do have a problem with the comments like "Winning POTY in Korea is absolutely nothing, because Korea football team is just a worse team" or "Overall record (between Korea and Japan) is nothing at all" or "Korea's advancing Worldcup seven straight times is just nothing, they are just worse team, and simply far inferior to Japan". I do have a problem, because I personally feel these comments are just nothing but denying all the achievements of a certain player or a certain national team, and I think it's just so unfair. And these type of comments made me keep posting on here. [/FONT]

[FONT=&#46027]However, maybe I should not mind at all anymore, because I don't want things going on this way and also, as you said, yes, this is just your opinion, and this can't affect our national team in any case. The quality and the future of our national team wouldn't be shaked at all by someone's just personal opinion.[/FONT]

 

Obviously the award has meaning to Koreans but in the context of a debate about Ki's abilities relative to Ledley (the context that comment was made in) the award is meaningless, it is also devalued due to the loss of Korea's top players due to injury or because they were buried on the bench at top clubs.

In the context of a debate about the current ability levels of the Korean and Japanese national teams the overall record is not important. I also don't think that qualifying to the World cup from Asia is any great achievement. The United States is in a similar situation, they have qualified for quite a few world cups in a row but that doesn't mean they are a good team.

In the end its just my opinion, don't let it bother you if you don't agree with me

 

You obviously have not watch Dortmund against Augsberg.
How would you possibly know haw qualified I am to judge Bundesliga

Johnny Russell (Dundee Utd) better than Hamburg?
James Forrest (Celtic) would like to think we were better than Hamburg but I would not be to confident)
Jordan Rhodes (Huddersfield Town) better than Hamburg?
Gary Mackay-Stevens (Dundee Utd)
Scott Allan (Portsmouth) better than Hamburg ?
Danny Wilson (Blackpool) better than Hamburg ?
Ryan Jack (Aberdeen) better than Hamburg ?
Dylan McGeoch (Celtic reserve)
Jason Holt (Raith Rovers) Giants of Scotish Football

 

On what basis are you guaranteeing this? On his european performances for us? He has been average at very best.

At the moment he is in the squad because Kayal is injured, Forrest is injured and Wanyama is suspended.

I have nothing against the guy, but he has been here two seasons and for someone who posters think is fantastic isnt even guaranteed a start every week. I will be astonished if he isnt sold in the summer before his contract runs down his value.

Ledley is 10 times the player Ki is, and ever will be.

 

Are you dense? Again you are putting words in my mouth, in what world did I say those teams are better than Hambiurg? Have I missed something? James Forrest(Celtic), Danny Wilson(liverpool), Scott allan(West Brom) all play for teams that are much better than relegation threatened Hamburg (I know that two of those mentioned are on loan but the fact that they were bought by clubs like Liverpool and West brom shows their undoubted quality). The other players I mentioned don't play for great teams but individually they are good enough to play (or at least make the bench like the player you mentioned does) for one of the worst Bundesliga teams, do you understand?

This whole debate began when you tried to pass off a Hamburg youth player as a world beater when he simply isn't one, all the players I mentioned are similar level prospects.

 

Ki's European prowess is a myth and this was shown to be the case against Sion, he was dreadful in both legs but especially in the second. I also dont agree with other posters who say he was great in our other european games, I don't remember any good performances from him in europe. completely agree with that last line.