Johan Mjallby

Ha ha ha ha feckin' ha, roasted, really?

You cling to that mate, I now that's not the case, and deffo know you know it as well, my wee part time buddy ha ha

....but you claim your victory if it makes you feel better, know you've not much to be happy about at the moment eh mate?

Keep on clapping, it'll all work ( no pun intended, this time) out in the end

 

Jay and Fiferbhoy

Knock it off the 2 of you or your going on a Holiday for a while ,either discuss this topic or don't bother posting at all .

 

id rather dance if you dont mind fifer...its more colourfull,and applaud....the only thing is are folk really going to keep dishing out 30 odd quid to watch what jay thinks is a terrible league...because i dont see a continuation of european football on present form.....everybody kept supporting last season and a lot of it was down to the things that happened to neil and rightly so...but when you put that to one side and concentrate on the football personally i cant see the light at the end of the tunnel....mcoist made us look childish on sunday....

 

Disagree with this because why do teams like Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan & Bayern Munich have strong teams? Not just because of their players but because of their top coaches as well. You can have a talented bunch of players but you also need the coaches to make them work better AS a player and AS a team. It will be started off at grass roots level also, so when players are coming through the ranks, if they are coached well then it will provide well for the future.

A player can have 90% natural talent as you say, but if they're not coached right then it will count for nothing. They need to be coached & guided as an individual player and to work as part of a team.

You don't have the talent NOW, but if he had coached you from the age of four, for example, then it could have been possible because this is when Michael Schumacher had started karting. He won his first karting club championship at the age of only 6, so look how long he's been involved in the sport in total, from karting all the way through to his F1 career. It was his dad that started him off when he was so young, so really you could say that his dad coached him.

Would you make an excellent footballer either? No, because you never started off young like the majority of players these days and are not coached from a young age. Players get their natural ability by working at it as well as being coached because do you think that Schumacher had the natural ability to suddenly become an F1 champion? No, it started when he was 4; he was trained and coached.

If it's more on talent and not coaching then why have coaches at all? Why have football & training schools? With players like Messi, some players purely BECOME better as they get older, which is where the talent will start coming through, but they need to be trained & coached to become the player that they are.

Messi started playing for his local club at the age of only 5, which was coached by his dad (very similar to Schumacher's career), so maybe the youth players that Messi played with later on didn't start as young as him, or maybe they weren't coached by anyone with any passion like Messi's dad probably had. Or maybe they just didn't have as much passion as Messi himself or their attitudes stank. Ronaldo played for an * team at the age of only 8; Maradonna was already playing for an amatuer football club at 10; Pele never joined a football team until 14 BUT he was actually taught to play by his coach for the years before he joined the team.

No matter how great the player was or is, they were all coached. Coaching, whether it be by a dad or an actually trained pro/* coach, helps the player develop his natural ability more than what it would be if he wasn't coached.

In my opinion, no one is born with any natural abilities like football. For me, it's through hard work, dedication, attitude AND coaching.

 

Just back from holidays, don't want another, aye fair do's, consider myself tealt

 

Nice one.

 

Yes you may be right, but i think we both have valid points.
Our defence are not 4 years old (although they played like it Sunday ) so no amount of ex-great players is going to make them significantly better.
Wilson is not going to become Vidic with better coaching, Mulgrew is not going to be Gerard Piquet with better coaching.
That's the point i am making..... not the grass roots (although i did use the Messi argument).
A players natural and mental abilities will only go so far - no matter who is coaching.

If we want better defenders we will have to buy better defenders - no amount of coaching will make our players better sadly.

 

Nobody is under estimating the role of a coach, we all know what they bring to the table, but you must see that you've gotta have something there to start with which imo, big dolph is scarce of.

 

Gordon Strachan bought Mark Wilson in 2006, mate, and even then he never really got going because of all the injuries he had, even in his first season with us. Also when Hinkel came in in 2008 he kept him pretty much out the starting line-up as well. He struggled to really get back into the side from all of that and it was really Lennon that started him more regularly.

Forster may have shipped four goals in that one match but how many did he let in in total for the whole of last season? Only 22 in the league and how many of that 22 were his fault? A 'keeper is only as good as his defence in matches and when you have a defence that played the way ours did on Sunday, then the keeper can only do so much. Besides, he wasn't at fault for any of the goals either - it was all defensive *-ups.

It will be a masterstroke when (if? :icon_mrgreen we sell Sammy though because at least now we'll get money for him where as before he would have just left the club on a free this past summer.

 

Re Wilson, Lenny didn't fancy him either, Cha wasLennys first choice up until he had to go away to whatever cup it was, Wilson just happened to then grasp his chance. Don't think it was any great coaching, Wilson was the same player prior to Hinkel, just Hinkel was better imo

 

the point i was making was he,s been around the first team a fair while...it also means wilson,s better than the newer folk at lennon,s disposal.....as for sammy ...thats fine and well...but he,s picking up weekly wages in the meantime and doing next to nothing for it.......my big problem with forster is he very rarley claims a cross...which definatley is,nt helped by the dodgy defence ..granted....i dont think its an ideal situation for a club the size of ours to have such an important figure in the team to be on loan....that should of been sorted.....

 

Very true here

I can understand what you're saying, mate, but for me coaching is what ultimately makes a player become what he is. It takes coaching to help mould the player. The players you listed won't be as good as the ones you listed because, for me, the coaching isn't as good with us (or their previous teams) as what it is at Barcelona & Man Utd but I can see what you're getting at though.

That side of it though is all ifs and buts. If the players had come out in the second half the way they ended the first, we could have won at a canter, but they never so we didn't :icon_mrgreen:

While the players may not become better than what they are as individuals, apart from possibly the younger ones like Rogne because they are still really young, I think they can become better as a UNIT.

For whatever reason on Sunday they never worked as a unit and were all over the place in that second half. Just like they were with St Johnstone - too many players trying to do it for themselves rather than working together as a team.

Although Ironically with St Johnstone it wasn't so much the defence as it was the midfield and attack. With Sunday it was really mainly the defence. They've all had their turns at being * now so hopefully now they will work better as a whole

 

I cannot get my head around people disregarding a coach's input on a players performances.

 

Well, they must have something because how did we do so well with a brand new team last season? We let in only 22 goals for the whole of last season. When I say "so well" though I don't mean it by winning the treble kind of well

Although in saying that, we were in the final of the CIS Cup, missed the league by one point and won the Scottish Cup, so really thinking about it, we DID do well, especially as it was with practically a brand new team. This year, we've only let in 6 goals in the league in 7 matches. Granted Hun FC have only shipped 3 but that's what happens when a team plays with 8 players behind the ball more often than not :icon_mrgreen:

For me THAT is where we * up in that match - we never played our usual passing, attacking football. We ended up defending too deep, invited pressure on ourselves and relied on long balls to Samaras.

 

Nobody is disregarding a coaches role, what i'm saying is that all the coaching in the world by the best coach in the world, will not make a bad player into a world beater. Yes, he very well might make a slight improvement but if said player has no positional sense no great desire to go in where it hurts shites himself when he crosses that white line etc. are you still gonna blame the coach?

 

Cha got an injury at the start of last season which is why Wilson was brought into the line-up. The cup you're thinking of is the Asian Cup, which started in January this year. Hinkel also got an injury, just before the start I think it was, of last season, so once Cha got injured his only real choice was Wilson and in my opinion Wilson done really well last season when he came in. He even scored the winner for us in the Scottish Cup replay.

Wilson was injured for a lot of his time before Hinkel came in in Januray 2008 and when Hinkel started, he really made it his own which kept Wilson out. Wouldn't have been right (or fair) for Hinkel to make way as soon as Wilson was fit just to play Wilson.

To me, it's just been bad luck and injury that had kept him out for so long, until Lennon gave him his chance last season, which he took.

 

To me this is getting off track, op was about Dolph and the defence, we were the same last season as well, when we were pushed back we struggled defensively, last season although we might not have shipped goals we were no great shakes . This season imo we're worse, and also imo, yeah sure, you can blame some coaching ( look back, I said the finger might well be pointed Dolphs way regards zonal marking) but with more or less same players when the heats been on, my point is, they're not good players.

 

Well my memory is different, Cha was a regular prior to Asian cup, was actually starting to play quite well, mind his winner against St. johnstone.

Wilson and Hinkel both suffered injury wise, but in my opinion Hinkel when fit was the better player.

As for Wilson, he is an average player who played reasonable well for half a season, and stayed injury free in that time giving him the game time and confidence to settle, something that he hadnt really gotten before and performed ok, I just don't think he's as great a full back as made out, and deffo not the work of any magical coaching regime, all imo.

 

there not pal ....there was a cross came from the right on sunday ..jelavic got behind loovens ..who did,nt have a clue where the ball was.....first rule of a defender ...send the ball back from where it came...this applies to crosses......mulgrew looks not bad a cb......wilson had a terrible time that clearence for there goal was woefull....rogne for me is the shining light he stood out head and shoulders against rangers ..we need players to stand up and be counted in the big game.....as for maj ..does,nt manage to do the simple things like win balls in the air and clear his lines....basically id scrap at least three of these.....o,dea,s on loan and definatley better than maj or loovens

 

Yeh he has been around for a while but I've mentioned in another reply that he was kept out mainly by injury and another player ie Hinkel. Wilson wouldn't have been put into the team as soon as he was fit or just for the sake of it because Hinkel kept him out. Now he's had his chance finally and to be honest credit to him because he could have just * off at the end of 2009 thinking he'll never get his chance, but he stuck with us, obviously worked hard at staying fit, and was given his chance last season.

As for Sammy, well, what about all the other players that don't play for us week in and week out that are on wages? Not all are as high as Sammy's no, but it's the same principal.

I agree, though, that it is time for Samaras to go because he hasn't done enough in the 3, almost 4, years he's been with us. I like the guy and want him to do well but he's just not consistent enough. Ironically though he was one of our better players on Sunday and the thing is, people blame Samaras, or single him out for Sunday's performance, but apart from the goal, where was Hooper? To me, Samaras done more on Sunday than what Hooper done, apart from score, yet he gets a lot of the blame.

As for Forser, well, it is confusing on why someone who's 6ft 7/8 wouldn't come for more crosses or balls granted, but, again, to lay the blame at him when none of the goals were his fault isn't right. He may not have come for many crosses on Sunday but none of that let to any goals. Could say their second one BUT for me any 'keeper that comes all the way out to the penatly spot area to try and claim a ball from a corner when there is already three defenders there, is suicide. He done the right thing for that one in staying on his line for me.

For me, he just gets a lot of the pan because he's the last line of defence.