Fans Join Celtic Chiefs Clean Up Call

I actually didnt want to post, since I have no personal connection with the whole stuff, but there is a very thin line of what should be sung at football grounds and what not. no offence Dempsey mate, but there are songs at every ground which have no place at football. lets start with the national flag or anthem, nothing to do with football. opponent insulting chants like "xy are *", "* xy" etc

many football supporters clubs have got a strong political connection nowadays. e.g. Lazio fascists, Livorno communists etc

I think people shall be singing whatever they want, if you dont like it, just dont sing it.

censorship is a bad thing imo.

 

freedom of speech?

you communist *!

 

yeah that was my point too before dempsey accused me of brigning secterianism to celtic park.

If you know something is going to be there you dont like and you know it is part of the club in which you support then y da * are you supporting? In supporting a club you are admiring its culture and history which just so happens to be of an irish nature! Now if your going to slabber on about censoring rebel songs then you obviously don't appreciate much what your club stands for. Im not bringing a fight for equality to Scotland, im singing about the fight for equality that exists in ireland and it's history, and also in scotland, in glasgow's history and in celtic football clubs history!

MY * MAN! THE CLUB HAS IRISH HISTORY, SO WHY DOESNT PEOPLE SCOTTISH AND IRISH HAVE A RIGHT TO SING ABOUT IRISH STUFF????

quit trying to normalise the club and strip any history or culture it has. Do you want celtic to be boring or exciting?

 

So why would you protest about republicanism in a foreign country?

Communist? What an insult, do you even understand what you just called me? Anyways i'll give ya 9/10 for originality

 

You said it all by yourself.

I dont care one bit about the Italian facists or the racists in Spain, their problems dont concern me and because they have their problems, it doesnt excuse us from ours

 

And some sing sectarian songs, thats not Celtic's culture and identity no matter what way you try and twist it

 

Name the songs, Dempsey. Name them.

Once and for all..

Put up or shut up.. You've been asked several times by several members.

There ain't no twisting goin on, save for the squirming when people are asked to quantify the rubbish theya're foisting upon the club to satisfy certain insatiable opnion makers in this society and thier self serving ageda. If you can't understand the sinister subtleties at work here, then witness the Artur Boruc situation for a microcosm of this.

No one would accept half truths and BS with regard to transfer policies etc, so why should we on this?

You are so clearly putting the baby out with bath water here. From any group of a few million (eg: Celtic supporters) there will be fools who act like fools. However, I would bet my life that if there any statistical comparisons They may revel in confontation, yet how dare somee people try to crimnalize the valid culture of our football club under this pretence. Call a spade a spade: sectarianism and exclusivity defines Rangers culture, inclusion and Irishness defines Celtic culture in response. Fact.


People are angry at being labelled sectarian just to offer an imaginary balance to Rangers' cancerous problems.

Tell us which songs are sectarian and why. Don't dodge this any longer because this is an important move this club is making and a thoughtful response is required.

hail, hail

 

I've named the songs several times throughout this thread if you bothered to read my posts, which you obviously havent so

 

Sorry, this should have ended:

"However, I would bet my life if there were any proper statistical comparisons undertaken, then there would be a very similar percentage of what I call "the lowest common denominator" in any group following any football club, or, indeed, in any walk of life."

I'll say it agian while I'm on. Republican songs are not sectarian and do not inspire hatred, and any move to say as much deserves contempt.

As for the craziness of saying that we shouldn't be coming over to a foriegn country in Scotland to bring Ireland's history and culture in song to Celtic Park, isn't that what the anti irish zealots have been saying for centuries as they tried to drive Irish immigrants into the sea? By the by, in turn leading to the formation of Celtic?

hail, hail

 

Why arent the songs about the Scots, the catholics, the poverty striken that suffered being sung then at matches then? Why is it songs about Irish history?

 

When did your opinion become a fact??

There is a sectarian element to the Celtic Support, Rangers are much much worse but there are bigots going around with Celtic jerseys with nothing but hatred for protestants and Rangers supporters and they will land our club in trouble with the SFA and UEFA in the future if they aren't stamped out. We'll all suffer because of a minority that we didnt deal with

 

Yes, I have read your posts, and read them with care. I don't view it as a dsirable trait to proceed in one direction or the other blindly, or because outside force compels me to.

With respect, you are being disingenious again, as you were a few posts back when you played dumb with regards my argument about the impossibile contradictions standing up in the face of any prospective law. You said something like " who's talking about making new laws, idiot".

Genuinely, post a considered response to the undermentioned and this debate will be won or lost.





Name of Song Ban (Yes/No) Criteria meriting ban (or not)


Feilds of Athenry
Joe McDonnell
* Save The Queen
Boys..Old Brigade
Soldiers Song
Flower of Scotland
Star Spangle Banner


I don't wan't to antagonise you, or anyone. It's not in my nature. I am genuinely fearful that this criminaliztion by proxy of Irish Republican identity will succed in such a tangible way at Celtic Park. Men died on Hungerstrike to nail this policy, and I for one will oppose the continual drip, drip through the media etc attempting to achieve now what couldn't be achieved then.

hail, hail

 

ThebhoyMalone complained that you didn't seem to take on board anything he pointed out, and I would have to regretfully agree.

Do you not appreciate the statistical insignificance I mentioned regarding the morons that can be found in any group of people in any walk of life. Celtics are no greater or no less than normal. I would stake everything I own on it. I would also stake everything I am ever likely to own on the fact that - by the same token- Rangers' problem would be shown to of a far greater significance. I'm not sure if or how it could ever be practicaly done, but I think the assertions I make are reasonble.

I've also pointed this out to you before: Rangers problems stem from generations of discriminatory political and religious socialisation. It is very similar to the problems in Northern Irish society. The main challenge is to call a spade a spade and say this discriminatory, supremacist, bigoted cultural identity is a cancer in society and must be tackled. Celtics formation and republicanism in Ireland are responses to this.

Don't be naive, this nonsense about one's as bad as the other/* for tat is deliberate and dangerous, no to mention untrue. The population from which Celtic draws support has never been inherently sectarian, but if the people are continually told that they are the mirror opposite of those who genuinely foster a cancerous racial/political hatred, then it will become- more and more- a reality on the ground. Nobody wants that, save for those self righteous, cynical ***les in thier ivory towers who don't give a toss about anyone's way of life and manipulate public opinion like it was thier own personal plaything.

Nobody of a sane mind is defending those who act on thier caveman instints from time to time.

I am the most anti racist, anti sectarian person you could hope to meet and- as Seville etc proved- our culture and identity is just such a healthy one. I'm going to resist any attempt to demonize Celtic and/or Republicanism to make others who should be facing up to realities in thier midst feel more comfortable in thier cesspool.

We (Quinn et al) have made the rods for our own backs with UEFA, in being shunted in this direction and not having the wherewithal to show a bit of backbone. Celtic never, ever had any problems going to any Protestant, Black, Muslim country with our hoops, leprechaun hats, (NON SECTARIAN!) rebel songs and endearing themselves.

Think about it logically, Why now is there a problem that we have to eradicate? I'll tell you why, because that cancerous Rangers/Loyalist identity has eventually brought a very public contempt upon it in Europe and, so red faced are they, that they seek to bathe us in thier reflected shame.

.. and it'll be the baby out woth the bathwater and "Go, Go Glasgow Hoops.. yay, yay, yay" No thanks..

hail, hail

 

It sounds like the only way you all want to celebrate your Irish roots is by singing about the IRA. Is that all there is to Ireland? We could go round and round with this but it all comes down to :

'one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist'

As for the 'Go Celtic, ra, ra, ra' foam finger pish, there are plenty of songs celebrating the club and it's history.

The Celtic Song
You'll never walk alone
Willie Maley
Four leaf clover
Over and Over
Celtic Celtic

or singing about individual players

For thebhoymalone, you may not want to bin your paramilitary rubbish for the likes of me, but people like you are ultimately going to damage my club, with UEFA threatening severe sanctions for clubs which don't drag themselves into the 21st century.

 

In the very near future UEFA are going to make an example of someone. The huns had their knuckles rapped last season, and it's clear the football authorities are going to come down hard on the next club to break the rules.

Fines
Points deduction
European ban
RELEGATION

Like it or not, Uefa and the 'anti-Irish' SFA run the game

 

I mentioned 6 other songs but you chose to concentrate on the last one, obviously we're not going to sing about one player for 90 minutes.

Ridiculous! - aye, your reply was

 

I have read most of the posts on this subject but what further can I add than to say that I for one am proud to be an Irish Scot.
If guys like Dempsey want to not only deny their heritage but also seems to be ashamed of it, then that's their choice. Historical,political Music/songs are in the very heart and soul of the Celtic peoples, whether it be a celebration or aout the struggles. I denied my heritage for many years even bringing my children up outside the Catholic Church because I was appalled by the sectarian/religious bigotry in Scotland and moved away in 74. A couple of years ago when back in Scotland I was classed as bitter, when I asked why,I was told because my sons wear a celtic strip! (they new nothing about the struggles in Ireland or about the IRA delibertly, may I add) If the shoe fits wear it. I went out and bought myself a double CD of Celtic and IRA songs and since then have introduced my sons to the real meaning of Celtic,a safe harbour away from the Biggoted Scottish establishment that have shown nothing but bigotry against Scots of Irish origin.

p.s. Surprise surprise where did I purchase that double CD, why the Celtic Super store of course. Double standards and aw that!!!!

Dempsey, have you read Celtic Minded, let me recommend it to you, it had a profund effect on me!!!

 

You are losing the plot, I have no problem whatsoever with the club remembering it's Irish roots. I'll ask the question again: 'Is that all there is to being Irish - the IRA?'

So what you're saying is that if you can't sing about the IRA - you can't sing.


I'll say it again for the cheap seats
Fines
Points deduction
European ban
RELEGATION

 

We should sing irish, catholic songs but songs about the "ira" are not on

 

Of, course not, Greendave..

It's clearly not the case that rebel Celtic songs are only exclusively sung. They usually are sung in addition to the other non rebel Celtic songs. Nothing particularly out of the ordinary there.

..and I am also very mindful of the fact that in trying to debate this we have focussed our attentions very forcefully on the Irish Republican aspect that lives within Celtics soul, and that many Scottish born and bred Celts could rightly feel a bit peeved at us for seeming to dilute the Scottishness of the club also.

I hope that isn't the case!

I understand your fears about the sanctions etc, Greendave, but do you also take the point that many are trying to make:

that it is the unwarranted attempt to paint us as sectarian and criminalize an entire body of people that has brought this debate upon us?

Either you agree that this part of Irish Republican-Celtic sentiment and identity is sectarian, and offer a clear proof as to why (it couldn't be done in the North over a course of decades, so I don't see how it can be done here)

OR..

you arrive at the inescapable truth that it is a disgrace that Celtic have been targetted in this way, just to appease the bigots.. and it is almost as much of a disgrace that some have been reading the Daily Record etc for so long that they are willing to swallow this.

Greendave, do you honestly believe your energies could not be better spent raging against the sheer underhandedness that has brought the madness of sanctions even being on the radar?

Truly, I don't want to Celtic to be punished, but we CAN NOT just bow just because we have been manouvred into this. The more you mention the possibility of a non sectarian club and non sectarian songs and sentiments being punished to suit the very agenda of the type of people this club was formed to combat, the more you give thier agenda credence.

If you had been alive at the birth of the club, would you have towed the line that Celtic were a sectarian-papish conspiricay that sought to deliberately divide the Catholic youth from British-Protestant state?

Accepting that lie would have seen Celtic die. It's no different today.

If there are any individual Celtic supporters who act in a criminal way, or who incite hatred etc, they can be deservedly be dealt with by a court, where the charges will have to stand up well. If they act like dickheads, they will be proven guilty. Period. Same with any idiots in large group of people, and no different to any other football club on this planet.

Just stop the madness of accepting the ridiculous spectre of sanctions because of the lie our club culture/politics/identity are based on hate, and tell it like it is. WE, AS CELTIC FANS (OR IRISH REPUBLICANS) ARE NOT SECTARIAN AND CANNOT BE PROVEN AS SUCH UNDER ANY LAW, ANYWHERE.

hail, hail