fans behind WGS and finally pointing fingers at the board

I've been reading it a little bit more good guy - bad guy ish. Lawwell is trying to reassure everyone that they're doing their best to find a good deal and have not given up, and Strachan is trying to get us used to the idea that it's a possibility nobody will be coming in.

Not that I think either is wrong (don't ask me whose playing the bad guy).

 

you may well be right with that one, prepare for the worst and if anything does happen its a bonus

 

why was it clear there wasnt enough? Perhaps the players didnt fancy celtic?

 

Not so sure that’s entirely accurate, do you have the figures at hand to back that statement up.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
Below is a post I lifted from the net a while back it shows figures contradicting your belief. Not to sure where the original poster found these figures from, perhaps they are not accurate, Can anyone verify if they are?<o></o>
<o></o>
<o></o>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Turnover<o></o>
Celtic £75 million
WBA £23 million<o></o>

key elements of turnover<o></o>
gate receipts<o></o>

Celtic £34 million
WBA £8 million<o></o>
TV and media<o></o>

Celtic £23 million
WBA £9 million<o></o>

Merchandising<o></o>
Celtic £13 million
WBA £2 million<o></o>

we have huge extra income over the biggest spenders in the Championship. Thats real money, not accounts wizardry,smoke and mirrors<o></o>
On the other side of the ledger, the money spent was as follows<o></o>

wages and staff costs<o></o>
Celtic £36 million
WBA £15 million"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For me our transfer activity has been conducted in a clever way, the players we have brought in for little outlay have strengthened the squad. However these signings should have been the tip of the ice-burg and not our major signings of the summer. I honestly feel cheated, I can’t possibly point fingers singularly at the board or at WGS as I can’t possibly know the true ins and outs of how they do business.<o></o>
<o></o>
I can only surmise what may be going on, I believe WGS is wary of bringing experienced professionals to the club. As thus far his track record with these players is patchy to say the least. I also think their may very well be incentives in the form of wage bonuses for WGS, to be successful on the basis of how much he spends. <o></o>
<o></o>
There has got to be a reason why WGS struggles to spend his budget, both last season and this. Lawwell has said there is more money available to strengthen the team. I don’t buy into the spin of economic climates/wages being a valid reason as to why we struggle. For me we should be competing with continental clubs for players not the EPL and most fans would expect us to have the money to compete at that level. We need to show ambition not preach it, if we truly are ambitious we need to go out and spend our budget on the best quality we can get.<o></o>
<o></o>
Someone brought up on here the other day the issue of performance related wages. I am sure most clubs operate on this basis, However maybe Celtic have somewhat tarnished their reputation amongst agents and perspective players a like. For example Tommy G, Bobo, maybe JJ and perhaps many others have been frozen out at times. Perhaps not solely for football reasons, maybe a decision was made to not play these players so as to penny pinch. This kind of practice would no doubt make it difficult in future to deal with the agents of potential targets.<o></o>
<o></o>
All I know is we have money or so we are told, there are more players out there at reasonable fees and in some cases for no fee at all. Than there are players who command massive transfer fees and wages.<o></o>
<o></o>
I feel we are being lied to constantly, we all know we are not dealing at the elite end of the market but WGS in particular constantly reminds us of this. Why does he do this? Does he think we are stupid fantasists or is he over hyping his players so as to make excuses for the lack of activity?<o></o>
<o></o>
Whatever the reason is for me their can be no excuses for our failure to bring in targets. So far our net spends is between 3-4 million pounds this summer. Simply not good enough and for me a bit of a * take.<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" oreferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><vath o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></vath><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=Picture_x0020_1 style="VISIBILITY: visible; WIDTH: 19.5pt; HEIGHT: 13.5pt; mso-wrap-style: square" alt="0" type="#_x0000_t75" o:spid="_x0000_i1025"><v:imagedata o:title="0" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\User\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape><o></o>
<o></o>

 

I can safely say that that is the best post by you i have ever read Ellbhoy.

A couple of point though:

Football fans are stupid fantasists - that's why East Stirling still get supporters turnign up in the belief that they might win. In Celtic terms, how often was Robbie Keane linked with Celtic by fans before his 20m transfer to Liverpool.

I think there is a big transfer available but WGS has been told that he has to be 100% certain that the player is worth it. I think we were willing to pay 7m for Pavlechenko until his value doubled. The sad fact is that the closest relation ot Scottish football is English and the prices there have doubled in the last 5 or so years. There is no chance of us signing a quality striker from the EPL like we could 8 years ago (Sutton, Hartson). We can't afford to their transfer fees or wages. Fulham could afford to spend 10m on a striker this summer FFS!

I'm interested about the previous treatment of players on performance related contracts and how it relates to our problems signing other players. Have you heard something about this?

In the end i'd rather not sign anyone than sign someone and find ourself desperate for cash in January and have to sell Aiden or Artur. I thought Artur would be away this summer, i guess you have to take that from this transfer window - we aren't a buying club but we are not a selling one either.

 

Yip, i look forward to Aiden mcgeady running down the wing when he's in his 70's.

 

Tah I think?

These supporters are amazing to me, they must smoke some decent stuff, I wouldn´t mind some myself.

In Celtic terms players like Robbie Keane will always be linked purely on the basis of their back ground. However I would think 90% of fans realise someone of his stature would be a total non starter.

To be honest mate I am not really looking for a big transfer just a better standard of player. The way WGS talks about his players, it is as if he really believes he can’t buy any better than he currently has. I guess it’s all about opinions but for me I just can’t agree with him. That’s a big issue for me and IMO another smoke screen in regards to our lack of activity... No matter what level you’re at it should be a priority to improve your team season on season, for whatever reason we are not doing that IMO.


Regards to Fulham they have money to burn like most other EPL clubs but to me that market is only a small part of the over all picture in terms of transfers. Everyone knows we can’t compete with the premiership but that goes for most of Europe also. These are the teams we should be competing with, for me though we are failing to do so and that is hugely disappointing.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>

I Can’t possibly know anything for definite Swoop but it is logical to think, along those lines. Something has smelt bad to me for a long while now in terms of player treatment. That feeling is only being compounded by our continued failures in the transfer market. Perhaps I am guilty of puting 2 and 2 together and making 6, however there has to be a reason as to why players were frozen out completely and now with our lack of transfer activity perhaps the reasons are becoming clearer.<o></o>
<o></o>

Our transfer deals should have been in the pipeline long before the end of last season. We all have known were the team has needed strengthened. I am sure WGS and the board must have known also. It’s all too simple to look at the next window, we have money or so we are told we should be spending it. We are in a strong financial position and have talked a good game in terms of ambition, it’s time for the talk to stop and let’s see the proof. January may well need to be budgeted for however this window had to be the priority.<o></o>
<o></o>

 

As usual my thoughts are a lot kinder to the board & Strachan than most....

I think that simply there were no quality signings available that fell under the following criteria:

a) Significant enough improvement (over what we have) to justify a transfer
b) Transfer fee / wages that reflect their ability
c) A willingness to come to Scotland
d) Not been offered better money elsewhere (i.e. England)

I think Bassa and Tamas fell over on point b and most other transfers we havent seen materialise due to combinations of all over the above.

So in this respect I'm pinning all the blame on external factors and if anyone at Celtic deserves blame it's the scouts!!!

 

Sorry, that sounded sarky, it wasn't. * sake, when i give my girlfriend a compliment she always thinks i'm taking the *, I can't believe that i also do it on a forum!

I was looking for a big transfer this summer because i think we have a settled team and with no-one leaving i was hoping just a couple of players would come in who were better than what we had. Our defence is much maligned but it we have the central defence of the country ranked 15 in th eworld. It would cost upwards of 10m to get Mick and Gary, even though most fans don't believe it.

It's an interesting theory about the agents etc. Maybe you are right but surely some of the players we ahve signed on the same basis are still playing in the team and their agents are happy? Balde isn't a footballer in th eloosest sense which is what WGS aspires to and Graveson didn't obey team orders. Perhaps they would have been kept out the team anyway?

We have signed 4 players this summer, for a team that is champons and reached the last 16 last year thats not bad. Our team is still young and is getting better every year. I guess we ahve to accept that due to our financial position (in a gun fight we are stronger than rangers, just) we have to wait until other clubs are desperate to sell before making a move, ie right at the end of the window. Here's hoping...

 

PMSL Tell your better half she has my sympathy.

I guess the excitement of a big money transfer is what all fans want to see. I guess the rest of your paragraph is all down to opinion, I am not saying our players are bad I just think we can improve on them without breaking the bank, something we are being told we cant.

Fingers crossed.

Hail Hail mate!!!

 

actually think wages are a bigger problem than fees. I dont know what our going upper rate for our first 11 players is but (balde aside) I get the impression its only about 15,000 a week. Again I am short on data but I would imagine low to middling EPL teams pay twice that to their top players. A player may play for say up to 25% less for football reasons but its a very rare player who will play for half their potential wages elsewhere. Anyone got any stats on Celtic wages and EPL ones?

 

Here's the real figures for anyone who is interested...

http://www.celticfc.net/NetFrame_Cl...sourceID=0748b4e9-af09-4701-93b3-e0226c99fec5

Turnover down to 72 million from 75 with multimedia revenue almost static. Our current board are doing a good job under difficult circumstances.

 

Kelltoi mate why are you so hung up about EPL wages? We are not competing in that market.

Besides the EPL only make up a small amount of the total transfers around Europe.

For me it would be more interesting to see what the top Dutch, German, Portuguese and French clubs pay in wages. I would be surprised if it was more than what Celtic pay.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o> </o>

 

Certainly JVoH and Brown are 25k a week plus. But it is not just about wages, it is about exposure. If you play well in the SPL nobody cares, hence Henke staying with us for 7 years, if you play well in the EPL you get bought by a big team. An agent always hopes for a 15-20m transfer, thats 2m quid in the bank straight away.

 

I think David Villa of Valencia only gets or got before his new deal somethng like 35k a week

 

If true, then point well made, a percieved superstar on semi affordable wages.

 

Whoevers fault it is theirs simply not been enough investment in the team.

We are poor in the full-back area, central midfield and we have no pace up front.

We will be very lucky to get out of our CL group and it will be close with the huns again.

Not what you'd call building on success, but whats new?

 

But would cost 25m...

 

yes but the EPL are trawling all the markets and offer bigger wages regardless of what league they are playing in now. They are also our nearest neighbours. I think its no. 1 reason why we struggle to sign players better than what we have. Every time we spot someone Birmingham, Villa etc are on our shoulder.

 

Birmingham?? They have struggled to find the wages for Balde, most championship clubs dont pay wages at the levels some are led to believe.

Regards to EPL clubs being after our targets, that very may well be the case in some instances but surely not in all. I mean the EPL cant buy every available player.