Downsizing is a Myth

Not the rest of European clubs; the clubs in the big leagues that now hoover up all the best players because of the insane TV money they get.

Absolutely nothing we can do about it.

 

Downsizing...make (a company or organization) smaller by shedding staff.
Should sales not have some relevance when we are talking about downsizing. This is just cherry picking statistics.

Perhaps someone might answer this question. As downsizing is a myth are we spending a greater percentage of our income on players over the last 3 years than we have done previously? Perhaps we can have some statistics that are not cherry picked.

 

The chances are probably yes we are, but that would be down to how money in football has changed whereby our tv revenue is the same as 2003 I think as someone mentioned earlier and also the money fans bring in is probably considerably less then that period also.

Our only real income of late has been player sales which like CL or even more so the CL football is less reliable and shouldn't really be used to build a financial model on how we can best spend our money.

So Where player sales are a biggest cash flow for the last few years the answer would be yes I assume but even still it is going to be contorted and twisted because of how football has become more expensive but Scottish football in whole as pretty much stayed exactly where it was 11 years ago revenue wise with the only other "marketable" asset the MSSM and other sources think it is in Oldco dying our rep has fallen way below that of what it was 11 years ago.

EDIT: i remember reading here maybe a few years back possibly around when TM was brought in someone posted up the transfer spending and transfer sales of the SPL teams where it showed we would spend what we got in sales and effectively break even each time, I would like to see how that has changed since then.

 

Contrary to the impression I might have given I believe we are stagnant rather than downsizing. I certainly would not endorse the views of many re spending big on one or two players as I do not believe we can endure the possibility that high price players might not be successful.

I believe though that the statistics given are just a load of hot air. Where is the correlation with the wages? We can get players like Joe Ledley for free but end up paying more than we would for a £1.5 million purchase from eastern Europe.

 

All you do is statistics dont you? When was the last time we bought a player for more than 2,5 million? Can you reliably tell me where the funny money that we've made in the last 2 seasons has gone? We fail to pay the minimum wage to our staff, we sell all our best players at the first sign of interest. We gain funny money yet still don't push the boat out for proven player. You do understand now that when we go out on Wednesdsy, there will be no investment at all?

It came straight from the horses mouth when Lennon said the team needed investment.

We are declining and you are just a happy clapping do gooder if you think otherwise

 

What I failed to post earlier was that I believe we should be more rewarding of our promising players and increase their wages&length of their contracts enabling us to hold onto the likes of VVD and Vic a little longer. I realise that they will inevitably leave but I would be nice to have them a little longer. Our budget should be able to sustain this small increase.

 

If I'm reading the last bit right hopefully, I would again imagine it is something to do with the bloated ego of players within the top 4 nations.

Where Ledley came in for "free" it did probably allow us to offer him better wages then we could have then say if we had a £3-4million bid for him accepted by Cardiff at the time, Also I would imagine there would of have been some helluva signing on fee for Ledley too at the time maybe even say around the £500k-750k mark.

A £1.5 million signing from eastern Europe IMO represents the same risk as someone like Ledley would have had when he first joined but because he is likely playing a nation that is outside of the top 4-5 he would have provided a cheaper alternative simply because in some ways they are like us and can't get what they may feel is their true valuation of the player.

I mean jesus if we where in the EPL for example over the last few years with the players we brought in we'd be * up * like southampton right now as all the "bigger" teams would have paid crazy money for players like Wanyama, Ki, Hooper, Ledley, Forster, VVD and probably even players like Izzy and Kayal would have gone for crazy money at their peak, just because they would be in a league with a self inflated huge ego.

 

I would agree with that but in our world it would be * * hard to manage.

We never truly know how much players ask for when negotiating new contracts and even if on occasions we gave people like Forster, Virgil, Wanyama, Hooper, Ledley, Ki close to what they demanded it then set a precedent for other players bumping their wages up and it would just slowly snowball to a larger and larger wage bill, which in turn will slowly eat into our transfer budget unless we can continue to make sure we sell a Wanyama or two every window AND get into the CL proper every season.

 

Guys like Ledley and Samarad were begging for new contracts. Two important players for us were not worthy of new contracts according to the board. Instead we will replace them with some projects - or even worse NO-ONE....u happy clappers are being taken for a ride and u can't even see it. Yous are mad!

 

We aren't downsizing per se, the problem is the board seem to be happy to stay at the same level of mediocrity year on year out, regardless of any progress the team may have made.

As people have pointed out in defence of the board, we spend roughly the same amount (5 million) every summer window. This is not a good thing.

In bad years like this one or the Mowbray debacle, then I would be happy if we spent * all, accepted our losses and focussed ont he youth. But in good years (both on the pitch and financial) such as 2012 and 2013, we should be spending more.

The board seem determined to do the same thing regardless of what is happening on the pitch - this is ridiculous. Lennon was doing fantastically yet was given the exact same support as people who did worse than him. How does this make any sense?

The board say on the one hand they have ambition and are determined to improve Celtic, make us completely self-sufficient, and return to the elite of football, but on the other hand they're not handling us in a way which would enable that.

 

your not wrong !!

 

Oh *, this doesn't go with the common opinion.

Lennon had plenty to spend for starters, even last summer.... he bought Pukki, Borriegter, Van Dijk, Biton and then bought Griffiths and Johansen in January.

As for this summer, Ronny is notorious for not really wanting to do too much work in terms of transfers aside from the odd quality player or two, he's much more likely to give youth a chance and work with what he's got already.

Downsizing was always nonsense when people brought it up. Since 2010 we've actually spent quite a bit and have brought in a * of a lot of players in numerous positions, some have worked out excellently some haven't.

 

Sadly my friend it is all office politics and unless I suddenly inhabit Lawwell's body no one will really ever truly know how the office politics is working.

But that is a fact of life office politics is everywhere in every job only those involved in it know the true story so it's hard to believe anything from anyone in football when they come out and say stuff.

 

And if you * and whine like the above without ANY logical reasoning you are the thickest, most negative and entitled type of fan (not a supporter) that Celtic have.

Even when you spell it out in black and white like the OP has, there is STILL no understanding. Just that insatiable desire to gett their own way and SPEND, SPEND, or I'll SCWEEM. Tiring.

We are all extremely disappointed in how it turned out last week but, as the OP has pointed out it isn't all to do with lack of investment. We have not got as much bang for our buck as we need at our level and that is also down to the previous manger and scouts more than financial backing.

A huge well done to the OP for exposing the myth. The easiest thing in the world is to screech and moan like a 6th year student on rag week. It's a lot harder to put in the work and analyse it which gives you a better understanding of how to find the right solution.

 

It would be better for the club to be signing these players on lets say min 5 year deals,that would let us get 3 years out of them and still sell with 2 years left and get a better return.
But i would think most players would refuse this long a contract.

Hooper,ledley,wanyama were all offer more money but they still went south.
Ledley had his contract offer for months and kept coming out with the good old line for the fans.....i want to stay we will work it out.
Took him less than 8 hrs from phone call to signing on the dotted line when he * off.
These guys are only interested in coming here for a year or two to get better spotlight time then its epl at first chance.

 

Ledley had a new contract on offer for months he was stalling with lines like i want to stay.
Then he gets the phone call and he is down in london and sorted all the details and signed in 8 hrs.

It was time for sammy to go and the fact he still has no new club shows how in demand he is.

 

From the Celtic Wiki website between Aug 2012 and Aug 2013
Transfers out £26.75m Transfers in £17.2m

These ins value include derk £3m, Pukki £3m VVD £2.6m and Balde £1.6m which is certainly not conservative.

We spent 65% of what we received in transfers.

 

Does it though, what do we really know? if it were me and be thinking * it I just had the World Cup off the back of long season I deserve a little break away for a little while, for we know he could just taking an extended break and not rushing himself back.

* I would do the same, plus he is probably still mourning having to finish with us and is still in shock he is no longer a celtic player

 

When the quality of player decreases every season, if its not downsizing its either mismanagement or ineptitude

 

And how many teams in World football spend 100% of what their bring via sales?

Next to none.

* years ago when Hibs made a killing selling Brown and co they made a profit of near £20 million themselves, under this logic I'm surprised they haven't gone to be SPL champions or there was fan riots when they invested no where near that amount back into the team because Scottish teams can't afford to.