Coffee chain Caffe Nero hasn't paid a penny in corporation tax

Answered you're own question, mate.

 

The tax system in this country has been * about with/created/added too by tory and labour Gov and that is the problem. It has not been created by 1 single Gov, although that does not suit some I suppose.

Info on Tax from HMRC Page 7 sums it up -

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2013/level-tax-playing-field.pdf

And it's likely to get worse for HMRC -

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e411057a-b991-11e3-b74f-00144feabdc0.html

 

What i dont understand about how threads like this develop, is how it goes from condemning a company for doing what every company would do, given half a chance....(ie, employ very shrewd accountants who are one step ahead of the govt accountants!)to slating the govt, or London, or the Tories or international capitalism.

Even if we go independent, this * will always happen, and Salmond et whoever ends up in charge will also be in the pockets of multi-nationals to some extent.Nothing will change.

Its standard practise for major companies to find ways of avoiding or minimising tax.......so why the hullabaloo?

 

If the public held companies to account for their actions by not buying stuff from them, the whole nasty corporate machine would fall apart. There are plenty places to buy coffee from. I am just saying, if people care that much then just don't buy it from Caffe Nero and they would change soon enough.

Amazon don't pay onshore tax. I don't care enough to not buy from Amazon so I don't moan about it. If enough people cared and acted on it then these companies would change their ways.

I agree 100%

To my knowledge, offshore tax laws have not changed in the last decade so this government has inherited the lax laws that allow companies to do this. I don't see how this is a Tory issue and I am sure if they were smart enough to fix it quickly they would... But they aren't.

 

Too few people care enough about it to stop buying their products. I stopped buying coffee at Starbucks... I'm not sure what it's achieved. People don't act en masse, so the impact on these companies is negligible.

 

Really? I think it's a logical progression.

 

Lowering the corporation tax hasn't even helped, has it? I thought that would have have the corporations an incentive to pay their taxes, saving them the hassle of utilising off-shore account.

At the end of the day though, its the governments fault for having silly loopholes.

 

The damage is already done though, these companies have been avoiding tax for a lot longer than the time we hear about it. The sheer amount of people who have bought coffee in both Starbucks and Cafe Nero (including myself) without knowing the companies avoided corporation tax. It's easier once you're made aware to decide to get your coffee elsewhere (probably cheaper anyway).

Not only do Amazon not pay onshore taxes, they underpay staff and have been linked with neo-nazis using intimidation tactics: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...rkforce-under-control-in-germany-8495843.html But we are so disconnected from this that people don't tend to care, they just see it as bargains on a screen to be clicked and bought in complete ignorance to the injustices.

 

So because multinational companies have been ripping the country off for decades we should just shrug our shoulders and pretend it's not happening?

Great outlook that is to have.

The reason the government comes in for stick is because they are responsible for the tax system and the tax system allows companies to get away with not paying what they should.

Instead of scapegoating the disabled, unemployed and immigrants the government should be making a concerted effort to close the loopholes that allow tax avoidance to be rife in this country. We all know who is most guilty of tax avoidance too and it's certainly not the people who could actually do with paying less tax.

People have a right to feel angry about these things and they certainly have a right to complain about them. If you're happy to just shrug it off and say nothing about it then go ahead. All I will say is that if everyone adopted your attitude then the Tory toffs in Westminster would happily allow us to be shafted even more than we already are. Indifference is their friend.

 

The point isn't whether or not everybody would avoid corporation tax if given the chance ( I don't agree with you that they would) but that massive companies avoid contributing any money while making huge profits, paying * wages and over-charging for their products. Aye, people are stupid and complacent enough to buy from these companies, but that doesn't take away the fact that it's grossly unfair that suffer no consequences while if any small businesses tried to avoid tax they'd get * in an instant. It stifles small businesses and makes a laughing stock of the uninformed consumers.

 

It is in a way if one chooses to go down that path, but i sense so much hypocrisy from people who say one thing, but who would act in another.

In all honesty, how many people in here if on £10 an hour, and given legal advice by someone, that they could avoid income tax legally by doing such and such with x amount of it, would say.....
"no, its on my conscience and i want to pay all the tax that i should, and i will contact HMRC and inform them of this loophole"?

There are very very few people in this forum who at this moment in time proclaim adherence to socialism of some form, who if given a really good job paying saying 40k a year, would give half away because they can survive on a lot less.
Ive seen people in my life proclaim socialism and then end up making serious money.......they may still vote Labour, or not, but they dont give up the money when it comes! In principle, its easy to be socialist.....in principle, i am one myself!

 

What i have a problem with is why has the london back slappers not changed the laws or closed the loop hole to stop their MATES in big business from avoiding tax.
Guess the bedroom tax takes up all their time.

 

I really dont think it is anything to do with mates.The laws on tax are constantly changing and subsequently the loopholes do also.
The govt of the day can only put forward changes in the system, the civil service then have the job of working it all out, and trying to prevent loopholes, but as it changes so often, i think it is almost impossible to close all the changing loopholes.
The big businesses employ the very top accountants to find loopholes!

 

I think you are simplifying it too much MGM by saying they are constantly changing. There are basics that can be done at any given time, no matter what changes happen.

This article talks about all of it quite well:

http://www.newstatesman.com/business/2013/09/twelve-steps-stop-tax-avoidance

 

* like this gets on my goat.

How hard can it be to tax these rich corporations a fair amount?

All this while a Tory government is cutting benifits from those who can least afford it.

Rags like the daily mail will print 10 times more stories about benifit cheats than corporate tax cheats which is a far bigger issue. Convenient that eh?

 

It is disgusting.....but it is hard to do much about it.The top companies have so much money, they can pay any amount to get the right guys, both accountants and lawyers, and tie the govt up in knots!

Even most bookies seem to have their online betting set up in places like Gibraltar and Malta!

 

Yea even boycotting these companies would be difficult as they provide a lot of employment in this country.

I guess u could argue that boycotting these companies would give room to smaller independent businesses but it would mean we would pay a higher price for goods which would most people would be loath to do.

I think the first thing that should be done is to get papers to start printing proper news, local and global on real pressing issues and to change the publics consciousness.

Right now more people are interested in public scandals and celebrities than proper news. ....... A real * shame.

 

The only time most people care about actual issues, is when it actually affects them......which is why all they seem to care about are celebrities etc.

There isnt a lot that can be done on that front.Austerity is causing a rise in left wing awareness, but also in right wing awareness.......but again, only in places where there are no jobs, or lots of immigrants!

 

Are you actually being serious? Or are you at the wind-up?

I guess you could also say that no matter how tough the prison sentences are we'll always have rapists, won't we? Nothing will change there. Why bother getting angry when we read reports of rape occurring?

The truth is, people are entitled to get * off about it, regardless of the government's willingness to deal with it.

We are perfectly entitled to be critical of the Government (be it Conservative, labour or SNP) because they are allowing it to happen. Put simply, the Government doesn't want to put an end to it. It's far easier to point at the unemployed, elderly and disabled and tell them that we're all in this together and that we all have to contribute.

 

The possibility for the situation to be worse in an Independent Scotland does exist mate , it will depend on the tax regime we choose to use, and also on what happens to the HMRC staff employed here, they may decide to relocate and we lose valuable experience or it may be a case our tax system is very efficient to the point it is "better" to be registered in London. (Or the opposite could be the way it pans out.) If I am being truthful and as we are likely to get a socialist type Government I know what way I think it will pan out however.

A tax system can really only work providing the individual is prepared to go along with it, as if you are set on paying very little tax it can be achieved by "normal" people as well and is easily achieved with a little research. In my own case, if I wished to reduce my tax by a great deal, I would merely switch to dividends.

Do you know that you are the only person who has actually named a different Government in the tax mess that is the UK. That's progress :bbpd: