Celtic and the Irish Struggle

And? I think we are all capable of making our own mind up as regards to the Provos, Don't think you can really speak for someone who died before the Easter Rising never mind the Troubles

 

Celtic really is the Irish community in Scotland.

It does extend itself outside of Celtic Park though, I'm sure plenty of people have had mates round for a drink or smoke and stick the rebels on for a sing song.

Other things are more due to traditions and influences of Irish immigrants like Irish Dancing and the like and are still widely performed.

 

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/en...top-10-results-video-146621595-238127381.html

To the delight of competitive Irish dance enthusiasts around the world, two favorites claimed the top spot on the podium Saturday in the Senior Ladies' and Senior Men's competitions of the World Irish Dancing Championships! Suzanne Coyle from McLaughlin in Scotland, won her 5th World Champion title and Michael Holland from Richens/Timm in Ohio, who just this year moved up to the Senior Men category, clinched his first World Championship.



Suzanne Coyle
2012 Senior Ladies World Irish Dancing Champion
Photo by Jean Lennon Schuhle
Coyle, a star of Wellpark Productions documentary "Jig" about the 2010 World Irish Dancing Championships in Glasgow, Scotland, beat 153 other entrants in the Senior Ladies competition for the title.
In this event, Open Champion-level Irish dancers from Australia, Canada, Czech Republic, England/Wales, Ireland, New Zealand, Russia, Scotland, South Africa and the United States took to the stage. The panel of adjudicators was treated to performances by ladies aged 21 and over, most of whom have been dancing for well over ten years, if not fifteen or more

 

:smiley-laughing002:

I think you are setting the bar for pre match discourse pretty high there Sween. How many of the Liverpool and Spuds fans do you think are currently sat in the boozer discussing the works of Shakespeare,Dickens and Chaucer ?

 

Is spuds a typo or does it refer to a specific team.

 

Typo. Spurs.

 

Yeah, I appreciate what you are saying and those names perhaps weren't the best examples. Maybe Bono, Bob Geldof, and Liam Neeson :smiley-laughing002:

But at the same time, Liverpool and Spurs can probably celebrate their nation or area without forever celebrating warfare. My point is simply that banging on about the IRA really doesn't amount to much in the grand context of "celebrating culture".

 

Do we "bang on about the IRA" though?

Seems like a small portion of what we are all about.

 

I am Irish and I do not think I have ever talked about any of these 3 talked in the pub. Do Scottish people spend their time in the pub talking about John Logie Baird or Ewan McGregor never mind Robert Burns?

 

I know what you are saying but personally speaking most of the buses I have gone on over the years and certainly the one I currently travel on do celebrate their Irish culture and identity outwith of their support for Irish Republicanism. So from a personal point of view I don't really recognise your caricature of the Celtic support as it is not my experience.

 

I think relative to the whole culture and history of ireland we do celebrate this part disproportionately

I was only kidding

 

That I would probably agree with. I just think that the Celtic fanbase is probably more diverse than it has ever been and you seemed to be being a bit dismissive of the whole fanbase based on your personal experience. However maybe I was reading too much into it.

 

I think it is impossible to capture the diversification of a collective, especially when it comes to ideas of culture and nationalism. We all can only go on our own experiences which are also going to be limited given the size of our support . I wasnt at all meaning to be dismissuve of our fan base.

 

Yet this is the small part used by an Englishman to rouse a team many of which were born in England before a game. Rebel songs tend to have of a rousing effect than other traditional irish songs do not.

http://www.herald.ie/news/mozart-made-me-a-better-footballer-27875290.html

This is not the first time that an Irish coach has used music to fire up his side. Early nineties footie boss Jack Charlton used to get the team to listen to rebel songs on the team coach. Sean South of Garryowen was always played as they entered a stadium in order to get the adrenalin pumping before a match.
Under Mick McCarthy the practice of using rebel songs continued but his successor Brian Kerr put a stop to it leading to friction between him and the players.
In one incident it was reported that a senior player walked to the front of the bus and turned the song on after Kerr had switched it off.

 

The reason some fans have a problem with it is that it gives the club a bad name. Like it or not, the IRA are seen as terrorists by the majority of people in the UK. So singing IRA songs is always going to attract negative attention. Some people feel the songs are irrelevant in today's society. Some would prefer to focus on the football. Some think that a lot of people only sing these songs to rile the opposition fans, instead of having an understanding of the song's real meaning.

I couldn't give less of a * about what other fans or the media think of our support, so if people want to sing these songs, then wire in. There's more important things in life to worry about than getting your knickers in a twist about songs at a football match (such as the match itself :icon_mrgreen

 

Simply down to skin colour, we're the invisible Irish.

Scotland refuses to recognize our existence, except in a negative and disparaging way. We're the largest ethnic group in Scotland but when we express our Irishness, it is labeled as sectarian.

Every other ethnic group is recognised by the Scottish government except the largest?

Why?

We all know the answer to that one.

 

If it wasn't for the Irishness amongst our support Celtic would be about the size and as successful as Motherwell or Kilmarnock. The Irish support from Ireland , England and Scotland have given Celtic its large fan base and brought the team so much of its success. If the Irish annoy the fans in the stadium so much why don't the Irish haters drown out the Irish songs by those of their own . The most complaints are probably Internet viewers and all they have to do is turn down the volume .

 

People within the Celtic fan base seem to have no problem showing their support for terrorists . On Remembrance Sunday they blazonry display their Poppies which commemorate amongst others, those who fought and murdered RC in
Ireland and illegal wars in the Middle East . They and their allies from America murdered so many hundreds of thousands that it was ruled the number couldn't be reported .
We allow our enemies to labour our freedom fighters

 

Who care what "UK" fans think.

The IRA are seen as freedom fighters by the majority of the world, 95% of people i have met from all across Europe/America.
I don't think there is a freedom fighting organisation in the world that is more widely known or respected.

The Celtic fans should be proud of the IRA support within the fanbase, it was a place where alot of people from the O6 could be proud of their culture without the threat of a RUC or Brit guns being pointed at you in the worst days of the troubles.

 

I think people many have a growing disenchantment with it due to the fact they are too far removed from their Irish heritage - as people have mentioned. And some may not even have Irish heritage to be honest. You would have to go back to my great, great-grandmother in order to find any Irish heritage in my family. However, as North has said the values of Celtic, or at least the founding principles and history of Celtic are ones that resonate across the board, regardless of ethnicity.

There is also a growing alienation between fans and Irish culture aswell. Why should we support an Irish culture, when the majority of Irish football fans could not give a * about us? :smiley-laughing002:

And that last statement is not a dig at Ireland - I love Ireland and think its a nation in which Scotland can take inspiration from, with regards to Independence. However, I do believe that is factor in many peoples thought process.

However, as I have mentioned If you really detest Irishness so much, then I dunno why you would support Celtic. I suppose if you are a gloryhunter, however even then you could have just supported Spivco (before they died).