Apathy for this team

Liam Scales · Nov 25, 2015

Gabriel said: ↑

There was no complaints of apathy when we played Barca, Benfica, Ajax etc. in the CL. Missing the huns no. Missing the CL most definitely.
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 Exactly this mate, when Rangers died I don’t think I’ve ever been as excited or as hopeful about our football. Competing at that level, getting that amount of cash in, if we sustained that as we should have (we were more than capable in my mind), then we could reach heights previously unobtainable to us. It’s the Champions League cash, it’s the prestige of the tournament, we reached the last 16 once in the last couple of years and that’s how we managed to attract a player like Virgil Van Dijk. Imagine being able to attract a team of players with that level of pedigree? Players as good as that? I’d love it. 5/6/7 years in the Champions League and that’s what we would have been doing. We should be on our 4<sup>th</sup> just now. I think whatever happened with Neil Lennon leaving * that for us. Now we have a manager that isn’t good enough to get us to that level in the scale of time that’s needed.

That’s where a big part of my apathy for the club just now is coming from. We’ve made wrong decisions and that has * the biggest opportunity that I have ever seen for us, we had the league to ourselves, we could keep winning that and gets the Champions route into Europe. We had free reign in Scotland to develop us into a Champions League team, a team that would leave everything in Scotland in its wake. Something that would leave behind the pettiness of Scottish football, we would be competing as one of the European teams. To fully leave behind the talk of Rangers/Aberdeen or whatever, it should be thought of an impossibility that anyone is going to catch up with us at any point by now.

That’s not happened though. We * it.

That’s not even beginning on folk on the board deciding to turn around and call us all racists.

Markybhoy · Nov 25, 2015

In the Sevco thread there has been a number of people, myself included, who have commented on what a good opportunity Sevco have blown to build their club from the bottom up while moving through the lower leagues. When they were in the bottom division they should have given up all hope of winning the Scottish Cup or the League Cup or getting it up Timmy. They should instead have blooded a lot of young players and had three or four higher standard players through the spine of their team just to help the young boys through. If they had done things that way they would not be in a financial pickle similar to the one their previous incarnation ended up in.

While it's fun to laugh at that mob and point out the blindingly obvious, there is a bittersweet element to it because I feel the same way about us. I think we have failed to grab the opportunity that was presented to us by their demise. Dev is right to highlight the fact that we've missed out multiple times on qualification for the Champions League. That has no doubt been a big financial blow to us as a club. But for me it's more than just that. Like Sevco, I feel we've missed out on the opportunity to give young players a chance and grow a team together. When the Huns were around we would never take the risk of playing youngsters because if we dropped points by trying it we would, in most cases, have been handing the league to Rangers. There wasn't much wiggle room there. Since the Huns went bust we have never been in any danger of not winning the league. A better opportunity to blood youngsters you could never wish to be presented with. Whether it was youngsters from Lennoxtown or youngsters we brought in from other clubs doesn't really matter. The former would be preferable of course but the latter is just as good. We have spectacularly failed on that front.

The zombies will likely be with us next season. How many young players have come through Lennoxtown in the four years they've been missing? None. Not one. You can clutch at straws and say Liam Henderson or Kieran Tierney but they've only played a handful of games and aren't at all proven yet.

I feel as though these past four years have been spent in stasis waiting for those * to reappear. That is without doubt what the people running our club have been doing. Waiting for them. It's a * state of affairs when the people running your club are running it on the basis of what a financial basket case of a club across the city are doing. But that's what's been happening. We are not investing adequately in our squad but just you wait and see what happens if those * reappear and are right up our tailpipe(or even worse, ahead of us). Watch the wallet come out then. Money will suddenly appear as if by magic from somewhere. It'll have to because the fans will demand it. We haven't demanded enough from our board these past four years in my opinion. When that wallet does finally open, the fans will then have every right to ask where that money was the year before or the year before that. As per, they'll be fobbed off or lied to by the men in the plush chairs.

The point is, we shouldn't have to worry about spending to fend them off when they do reappear. We should have spent the past four years putting ourselves into an unassailable position of strength. We have not done that. We are in fact a worse team now than we were when the Huns went bust.

I'm going to stop here as I'm actually getting annoyed writing this.

Liam Scales · Nov 25, 2015

Summed up very well for me mate.

murphy88 · Nov 25, 2015

Markybhoy said: ↑

In the Sevco thread there has been a number of people, myself included, who have commented on what a good opportunity Sevco have blown to build their club from the bottom up while moving through the lower leagues. When they were in the bottom division they should have given up all hope of winning the Scottish Cup or the League Cup or getting it up Timmy. They should instead have blooded a lot of young players and had three or four higher standard players through the spine of their team just to help the young boys through. If they had done things that way they would not be in a financial pickle similar to the one their previous incarnation ended up in.

While it's fun to laugh at that mob and point out the blindingly obvious, there is a bittersweet element to it because I feel the same way about us. I think we have failed to grab the opportunity that was presented to us by their demise. Dev is right to highlight the fact that we've missed out multiple times on qualification for the Champions League. That has no doubt been a big financial blow to us as a club. But for me it's more than just that. Like Sevco, I feel we've missed out on the opportunity to give young players a chance and grow a team together. When the Huns were around we would never take the risk of playing youngsters because if we dropped points by trying it we would, in most cases, have been handing the league to Rangers. There wasn't much wiggle room there. Since the Huns went bust we have never been in any danger of not winning the league. A better opportunity to blood youngsters you could never wish to be presented with. Whether it was youngsters from Lennoxtown or youngsters we brought in from other clubs doesn't really matter. The former would be preferable of course but the latter is just as good. We have spectacularly failed on that front.

The zombies will likely be with us next season. How many young players have come through Lennoxtown in the four years they've been missing? None. Not one. You can clutch at straws and say Liam Henderson or Kieran Tierney but they've only played a handful of games and aren't at all proven yet.

I feel as though these past four years have been spent in stasis waiting for those * to reappear. That is without doubt what the people running our club have been doing. Waiting for them. It's a * state of affairs when the people running your club are running it on the basis of what a financial basket case of a club across the city are doing. But that's what's been happening. We are not investing adequately in our squad but just you wait and see what happens if those * reappear and are right up our tailpipe(or even worse, ahead of us). Watch the wallet come out then. Money will suddenly appear as if by magic from somewhere. It'll have to because the fans will demand it. We haven't demanded enough from our board these past four years in my opinion. When that wallet does finally open, the fans will then have every right to ask where that money was the year before or the year before that. As per, they'll be fobbed off or lied to by the men in the plush chairs.

The point is, we shouldn't have to worry about spending to fend them off when they do reappear. We should have spent the past four years putting ourselves into an unassailable position of strength. We have not done that. We are in fact a worse team now than we were when the Huns went bust.

I'm going to stop here as I'm actually getting annoyed writing this.
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To be fair, was the average age of our team under Lennon not something like 23 for most games? If I mind right, I think Brown & Samaras were the two veterans of the team, and they were under 30. The problem is trying to keep hold of these players once the start to make a name for themselves.

Another thing, would our fans have the patience to see a manager do this. From what I can see, Deila is trying to build a team full of younger players who will be here for years to come, and the majority on here want him sacked. If players from our youth system haven't been given the chance, I'm always inclined to believe that they just aren't good enough. You would like to think that is the case.

Liam Scales · Nov 25, 2015

When we beat Barca we had Matthews at 20, Tony Watt at 18 and Wanyama at 19 all instrumental in the victory.

For me, that's building a team of younger players and doing it well. Deila's not buiding a good team, that's the point really.

Markybhoy · Nov 25, 2015

To be fair, was the average age of our team under Lennon not something like 23 for most games? If I mind right, I think Brown & Samaras were the two veterans of the team, and they were under 30. The problem is trying to keep hold of these players once the start to make a name for themselves.
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Maybe. I'm not Statto so couldn't confirm or deny that. :smiley-laughing002:

The thing is, for a while under Neil Lennon we were heading in the right direction. I don't feel we are anymore.

Another thing, would our fans have the patience to see a manager do this. From what I can see, Deila is trying to build a team full of younger players who will be here for years to come, and the majority on here want him sacked. If players from our youth system haven't been given the chance, I'm always inclined to believe that they just aren't good enough. You would like to think that is the case.
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It's a fair point to raise. We're not very patient as a group.

I think the fans would be patient if they could see that the youngsters they were watching had real potential. We were very patient with guys like McGeady, Maloney and Forrest for example. Guys like Wanyama and Denayer were heroes here, even at a young age.

Obviously if you have a team full of Marcus Frasers and Jackson Irvines then the fans are not going to be happy watching that, nor should they be. They're not the standard we are looking for.

murphy88 · Nov 25, 2015

\o/ said: ↑

When we beat Barca we had Matthews at 20, Tony Watt at 18 and Wanyama at 19 all instrumental in the victory.

For me, that's building a team of younger players and doing it well. Deila's not buiding a good team, that's the point really.
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Watt wasn't really proven at that point, but looked like he could go on to be something special, but he threw it away. Matthews went backwards with injuries before wanting away, and Wanyama couldn't wait to get away either in the end. It's not really building a team when the players are away a few years down the line in my opinion, as you have to rebuild too often. For what Deila is trying to do, I don't think he has been here long enough to make a judgement call on it. 15 months or so isn't a long time in my opinion. * me, a lot on here were wanting him punted after a few months, and that was in a season where we made the knockout stages in Europe, and almost won a treble. Imagine bringing through a lot of younger players and having more blips along the way as they find their feet? The majority of our support would be outside the manager's house with pitchforks.

ChrisMoh · Nov 25, 2015

\o/ said: ↑

When we beat Barca we had Matthews at 20, Tony Watt at 18 and Wanyama at 19 all instrumental in the victory.

For me, that's building a team of younger players and doing it well. Deila's not buiding a good team, that's the point really.
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makes it even more incredible.we had a young side that night.always thought wanyama was 21 though.

Liam Scales · Nov 25, 2015

murphy88 said: ↑

Watt wasn't really proven at that point, but looked like he could go on to be something special, but he threw it away. Matthews went backwards with injuries before wanting away, and Wanyama couldn't wait to get away either in the end. It's not really building a team when the players are away a few years down the line in my opinion, as you have to rebuild too often. For what Deila is trying to do, I don't think he has been here long enough to make a judgement call on it. 15 months or so isn't a long time in my opinion. * me, a lot on here were wanting him punted after a few months, and that was in a season where we made the knockout stages in Europe, and almost won a treble. Imagine bringing through a lot of younger players and having more blips along the way as they find their feet? The majority of our support would be outside the manager's house with pitchforks.
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You need to see progress though, you need to be seen to be doing it correctly. I don't think you can see that just now. Out of the Champions League two years in a row, embarassed in Europe. Best signing was a loanee, not really any young players been giving a chance in the squad (Henderson went from first team at 17 to out the picture when Ronny came in)

Who's the youngsters he's trying to bring through? Tierney and that's it. So he's not really done much on that side. He was preferring 'experienced' Efe Ambrose over Darnell Fisher last year as well.

I don't see any movement to use the youth in the last 16 months. He has started loaning them out younger which is about time for me.

As it is, just now, we're directionless for me. That's a completely different thing.

The Celtic Way · Nov 25, 2015

How many years down the line is ronny, and has he signed one player yet, who has improved the team, how can he build anything going by that, have a quick look at the players he has signed. Imo he stll depends on players signed before he arrived, maybe he is not in charge of who is being signed, if thats the case its an even bigger problem.

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VikingBhoy · Nov 25, 2015

\o/ said: ↑

You need to see progress though, you need to be seen to be doing it correctly. I don't think you can see that just now. Out of the Champions League two years in a row, embarassed in Europe. Best signing was a loanee, not really any young players been giving a chance in the squad (Henderson went from first team at 17 to out the picture when Ronny came in)

Who's the youngsters he's trying to bring through? Tierney and that's it. So he's not really done much on that side. He was preferring 'experienced' Efe Ambrose over Darnell Fisher last year as well.

I don't see any movement to use the youth in the last 16 months. He has started loaning them out younger which is about time for me.

As it is, just now, we're directionless for me. That's a completely different thing.
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Can't disagree about the progress on the pitch, but think you're wrong about the youngsters. This takes time Loaning them out younger is a key step, I would expect at least one of them to make an impact next season. Henderson was never a regular, so it's not a step back to be sent on loan. If we get Tierney this season, Henderson as a regular next season with Nesbitt out on loan ready to make an impact the year after that we'll have done very well. One youngster a year as a regular is a reasonable target.

VikingBhoy · Nov 25, 2015

Dev you've been gloomy as * lately. :smiley-laughing002: Another reason to hope we win tomorrow

murphy88 · Nov 25, 2015

\o/ said: ↑

You need to see progress though, you need to be seen to be doing it correctly. I don't think you can see that just now. Out of the Champions League two years in a row, embarassed in Europe. Best signing was a loanee, not really any young players been giving a chance in the squad (Henderson went from first team at 17 to out the picture when Ronny came in)

Who's the youngsters he's trying to bring through? Tierney and that's it. So he's not really done much on that side. He was preferring 'experienced' Efe Ambrose over Darnell Fisher last year as well.

I don't see any movement to use the youth in the last 16 months. He has started loaning them out younger which is about time for me.

As it is, just now, we're directionless for me. That's a completely different thing.
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How long do you give a manager to see progress though? A few months, a few year? I don't think he has been here long enough to judge him on bringing through youth players. As I said, I don't see 15 months as a long time. For me, I think barring a catastrophe domestically, I wouldn't be against him getting a 3rd crack at the Champions League Qualifiers, as our previous manager got. If we go out again, then it's time to go. My opinion could change based on results between now and then, but that's where I'm at just now.

Henderson has went from playing the odd game here and there, to playing regular football with the view to bringing him back I would imagine. Which is what should have happened when Lennon was here. He played the odd game under Deila as well, but he is never going to progress without getting regular football. Do you think he is good enough to be playing week in week out just now for us?

Bratfurdbhoy1 · Nov 25, 2015

We are like a car at a crossroads with no steering wheel and no indicators!! So we do not have a clue which direction we are heading and nor does any other c*nt!!Not to mention no driver, insert who you all think this is as I don't have a scooby do!!!

Liam Scales · Nov 25, 2015

You expect to start seeing progress quite soon, not right away, not even results but quite quickly anyway. Progress doesn't mean it's the end product.

Henderson had forced himself into the team and was playing a part almost every game in the last few months of the season under Lenny. Ronny came in, he dissapeared, made the odd wee cameo and now he's sent him to a lower division. * annoying that.

What about using Ambrose instead of Fisher? Ambrose was a bombscare and * useless. Fisher done alright when playing. How is he exactly giving the youth a chance in the first team?

Liam Scales · Nov 25, 2015

VikingBhoy said: ↑

Dev you've been gloomy as * lately. :smiley-laughing002: Another reason to hope we win tomorrow
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There's not much to be happy about at Celtic for me the now mate. We look * udderless.

The Celtic Way · Nov 25, 2015

murphy88 said: ↑

How long do you give a manager to see progress though? A few months, a few year? I don't think he has been here long enough to judge him on bringing through youth players. As I said, I don't see 15 months as a long time. For me, I think barring a catastrophe domestically, I wouldn't be against him getting a 3rd crack at the Champions League Qualifiers, as our previous manager got. If we go out again, then it's time to go. My opinion could change based on results between now and then, but that's where I'm at just now.

Henderson has went from playing the odd game here and there, to playing regular football with the view to bringing him back I would imagine. Which is what should have happened when Lennon was here. He played the odd game under Deila as well, but he is never going to progress without getting regular football. Do you think he is good enough to be playing week in week out just now for us?
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He was called upon against inter in a massive match, created a goal, and then was hardly seen again, if they are good enough they are old enough, you cant really use the burn out reason either as he is playing week in week out for hibs, ronny most certainly has his favourites.
Ambrose, johanson, armstrong, 3 i can think of, can anyone tell

Me why he persists with armstrong taking free kicks and corners * me.

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VikingBhoy · Nov 25, 2015

\o/ said: ↑

There's not much to be happy about at Celtic for me the now mate. We look * udderless.
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holy cow

Liam Scales · Nov 25, 2015

VikingBhoy said: ↑

holy cow
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That amused me:smiley-laughing002:

Roy's Keane · Nov 25, 2015

\o/ said: ↑

Aye, I notice in the post above yours he decided to make up his own reason and then try and have a snide wee * joke:smiley-laughing002:
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Calm down Dev. The reason I never replied to your quote is because my point is a general one and not just to you.

Some might say that you are claiming this as some sort of wee victory IS telling though (however not me as I am far too much of a gentleman to point out such things.)

I am sure your impassioned plea of disaffection to other like-minded wet * will be received favourably by them so far be it from me to disrupt your collective emotional outpourings.

But yes, well done. A beige medal for Most Hurt Celtic Supporter is winging it's way towards you in the (2nd class) post as we speak