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Any middle ground on here?

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by TimFloyd, Dec 23, 2014.

Discuss Any middle ground on here? in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. og1

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    Good lad
     
  2. ordinaryman

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    I want Ronny to succeed, I really do because if we get it right on the Park then it's an attractive and rewarding game he plays. However and there is a However, the way Ronny sets up the Team, particularly in Scotland is an open, high pressing game, where the last line of the defence is often on the halfway line.
    This type of game creates goal scoring opportunities both for us and as we've seen recently, for the opposition (Europe particularly) with quick balls over the top or through the defence - because with the high pressing game all too often the Central Defender is isolated/exposed to the counter attack. For me it isn't about having defenders who can just defend because this 'Open Game' requires fast mobile players who can play as both attackers and defenders; look at Man Utd with Valencia & Young who last year were attacking wide men and who this year are expected to both defend and attack.
    Ronny's system requires mobile Central Defenders who are athletic and good with the ball but it also requires wide men who, when they are not going forward, support the 'full backs'.
    As long as Ronny is here - and I hope that's a long time - we will need your VVD's and Efe (minus the heart stopping moments) type of central defenders as well as wide men who can run the line front and back. Stokes & Wakaso do that on the left. Tonev & McGregor to a certain extent do that on the right but young James doesn't - and I know from the 'Efe/Matthews' thread, most on here disagree with me, but JF is great going forward however from what I've seen, he doesn't play the attacking/defending role very well, which leaves holes at the back. He is fast/pacey and loves to get forward but when asked to support the full back as part of the right sided unit, which is the way this type of set up is played...it's alien to him and we get exposed.
    So based on the way Ronny wants to play the game, we need fast, athletic footballers who are comfortable with the ball. For me and thinking of the July CL Qualifiers, the immediate need, whether from current First /Development Team or from outside, is a
    Central Defender - VVD will go soon, certainly by next Summer.
    Left Wing Back - the better the opposition the more Izzy's defensive frailties get exposed.
    Right side wide man.
    Midfield brains - your Quarterback.
     
  3. JC Anton Here we go... Gold Member

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    Ronny has scored us at 5/10 himself

    And is always looking for improvement..

    Ronny will wake the sleeping bear..
     
  4. og1

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    I agree with almost everthing you said and i agree that Efe gets a lot of stick from some because of his mistakes and zero credit for his covering.

    I also agree that wee Forrest can improve defensively but i also rate him highly.
     
  5. ordinaryman

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    Times have changed under Ronny. As someone who goes back to when we were managed by Jimmy McGrory, he plays a different type of game to nearly every Manager apart from Jock. I think if you asked him, Ronny would say ultimately he wants 'total' football and that requires first of all Balls and then a certain type of player.

    James Forrest IS A HIGHLY TALENTED PLAYER.... when you are looking at an attacking player but, and maybe it's just me, not so when you look at the players needed for Ronny's system.

    I guess it became clearer to me watching the Dundee Utd game. It's was typical of how we've played for the past few months. We play a high pressing game, which gives us chances but it also gives the opposition chances. We win if we make more of our opportunities however if we don't and if the opposition make better use of their chances, they win. Compared to what we've been used to, it's high risk football and the better the opposition the greater the risk - we're giving chances to better Teams. To reduce the risk you need all units - Defence, Middle, Left, Right and Forward working as they are supposed to - pass, move, support, take opportunities. However if 1,2 or more players don't, especially the forward/back/cover roles then Ronny's system breaks down because it creates gaps and opportunities for the opposition and they have a greater chance of winning.

    Interesting times ahead especially as I don't see us walking away with the Title and Cup games are 1 offs with no 2nd chances.
     
  6. wulliebad

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    Once its awake can it play in defence.
     
  7. JC Anton Here we go... Gold Member

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    :icon_mrgreen: his words not mine... But aye we need to sign a defending bear we can feed!
     
  8. og1

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    Again i totally agree. I would argue that his system is needlessly reckless and if it was up to me i would change it immediately.

    It is interesting that you dont think we will walk away with the title. I assume that you mean we will win it but not run away with it? I reckon we will win it but i think the last thing this team needs is to be dragged into a high pressure war of attrition type title race.
     
  9. ordinaryman

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    I cannot imagine us not winning the League but I do think it will not be decided until after the League split, maybe with 3 or 4 games to go. One way to eliminate the opposition is to sign their better players and there's a few around, so January could be interesting. Also depends on who we sell/sign/Europa.

    However we/Ronny need to get it sorted this season because if Gers get promoted I can see Mike Ashley moving North within next 2 years. He's a businessman. He's put money into Newcastle and I can imagine him/his Team sitting down and deciding if he would make more money with Gers or with Newcastle and as there's more chance of Gers getting into CL than Newcastle, I can see him pitching up in Glasgow. Interesting times ahead.
     
  10. og1

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    Well i have to disagree with that. Rangers international are running at a significant loss and the only way i can see Gordon Gecko subsidising them is if he does it for the ego boost. I dont think this will happen btw and its possible that it cant happen with the financial fair play rules. Our biggest threats come from Utd and the Sheep imo. I cant see Utd going the distance but if the sheep get their act together and we continue the way we are going then they will be our biggest threat. They have a good manager and a team full of solid pros, they are also now debt free. We should not underestimate them.
     
  11. HoopswithPride

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    A fair point.

    As has always been with Celtic managers, fans also demand quality in the performance. Strachan and O'Neil won trophy after trophy yet the biggest gripe for some was the quality of performance. Tommy Burns for me had us playing the best football, albeit without much success.

    Success and quality football are the parameters which the fans look at. We have potential success and we're now beginning to see some right good football, that's why I think people are understating the achievements so far.
     
  12. Johnny B Bad

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    I have observed over the decades that there are two types of managers.

    First kind always produce teams who are solid defensively

    The second kind is those that do not.

    I have observed that a manager cannot pass from bad defensive to good defensive, but on occasion vice versa.

    RD imo lies in the 1st category. He can never be a success and to stop wasting everybody’s time he should go.

    In Warsaw, scored a good early goal, and then evertime they won possession in the midfield one pass and they were through one on one. The bad thing is that I saw St Mirren do the * same thing the other week. Fortunately we weren’t punished on that occasion. We will always have a glass ceiling of what we can do because of this.

    It reminds me of Tommmy Burns’s team. Soft as *, any physical challenge or pace they came up against they came unstuck.
     
  13. PaddyBhoy

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    Exactly what I tried explaining in the Deila thread.

    :50:
     
  14. og1

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    I agree with some of this and about how soft we are in particular. This team is due slip ups. They just are because of the way we set up. We need to keep at least 7 points ahead of the nearest rival to be afforded this luxury. I would like to see the manager stay on because there has been some positives. I think the most important thing is to fix our exposure at the back. So far he has not done this and this is very worrying. If the sheep are properly challenging us in the new year then i would look for a replacement to see us over the line. I am not panicking i am being practical. I would hate to see a Ronny team face a gruelling title run in.
     
  15. Vertie Auld

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    :56::56::56:

    Never in my life have I read so much incoherent *.
     
  16. 7-1

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    I've been backing Ronny since day one. Simply because he's a breath of fresh air, he's not connected to celtic in anyway and brings something different. I love his ideas and i'm beginning to see it transform onto the pitch. The ronny out brigade have gotten a lot smaller in the last 2 months i've noticed.

    In Ronny I trust :celt_2:
     
  17. Mr Shelby I am the son and heir Gold Member

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    Wanting him sacked after 4 month would be ludicrous, especially if you look at where we are.

    Ok, things aren't perfect but for a new gaffer and large majority of the side not being his we are doing alright.

    Deila is something different, too many in our support seem to be scared shitless of change.
     
  18. Haywood Jablomi

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    "A total euro force" mmmmmmm
     
  19. bkk bhoy

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    you're obviously not using facebook then :smiley-laughing002:
     
  20. Roy's Keane

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    I'm not sure I see responding to the * spazzmoid "Ronny Out" brigade with factual information is an issue?

    It's not as if anyone is saying he is and will be an unequivocal success is it?

    The factual information IS the middle ground.