The MLS 2017 Season Thread

Discussion in 'World Football' started by seamus1967, May 30, 2011.

Discuss The MLS 2017 Season Thread in the World Football area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. CalgaryBhoy Gold Member Gold Member

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    Toronto wins the MLS cup, first Canadian team to do it in history.

    Was quite a one sided contest in the end, Jozy Altidore scoring in the second half before Victor Vasquez scored in injury time to complete a 2-0 win. Seattle were on the back foot from the first minute.
     
  2. Lewis1967

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    College soccer on BT Espn. Pretty route one stuff but entertaining in a way
     
  3. Farmer

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    Just to revisit this since it flew under the radar here. Toronto wins the MLS Cup to finish off the treble in the greatest MLS season of all time. * nice one!

     
  4. eire4

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    The new season will see the league expand to 23 teams with the second team in LA up and running who will play out of a new stadium in downtown LA unlike the Galaxy who play south of LA in Carson. While DC United will finally have their own stadium this season rather then continuing to be stuck in the old American football stadium they have been using.
     
  5. Notorious Gold Member Gold Member

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  6. Mr. Fawlty

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    "Soccer is the most expensive sport for children to play – some US Soccer-affiliated teams charge $4,000 per season for players to take part – leaving talented youngsters priced out."

    Greedy *. Somehow I doubt fixing this will be a priority for the new ex-Goldman Sachs US Soccer president.
     
  7. eire4

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    The clubs that charge prices anything close to that tend to be in the north and north east of the US where the teams have to go inside for 3-4 months of the year and the cost of training space indoors inside is very high. So I can assure you charging the money they are is not about banking a ton of money in anybody's pocket it is driven largely by the high cost of indoor training space in certain regions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  8. Diegan

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    Unfortunately, this is very wrong. I grew up in the so-called "elite" youth club scene in the US, and my parents paid a fortune between me and my older brother. The youth club scene acts as a show case for university scouts, and so clubs charge extortionate amounts of money for visibility. The very best players might get scholarships because they will win and bring in more customers, but nobody else. It's unreal. The MLS clubs are different and now absolutely dominate the youth scene, because they are focused on developing players rather than winning (and winning is what brings the parents with the money). In California, my club charged 5k USD and my brother's (a fairly famous club with national team players, so you pay more!) upwards of 10k USD. Playing indoor had nothing to do with it. It was all about paying more to be on a better team. All the big youth clubs in the US are like this. It's really disgusting.
     
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  9. Nasser

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    I think LAFC will be huge, I can see them being like the Raiders were in LA and becoming like a fashion brand as well as a sports team.
     
  10. eire4

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    Actually this is not very wrong and I suggest you read my original post better I said in certain regions. But I guess I need to be more specific and say I meant in cold weather states with harsh winters the high costs of indoor significantly drive up the costs of club fees and that is what I was talking about and what I know about with certainty. Now maybe in California parents are being fleeced by some clubs charging high fees but I can say with certainty that is not the case at the top level here in Illinois and the surrounding states. I speak from knowing the actually costs and budgets involved here and who is getting paid what. Now that is not to say it is not possible to make a good living but at the top levels there are some really good coaches and I see nothing wrong with them making a decent living. But there is a big difference between making a good living and fleecing parents. I will also say there is a gender disparity in that because of the economic profile of the players on most top level teams on the girls side as opposed to the boys side which tend to have higher proportions of economically disadvantaged players there is no doubt there is more money on the girls side of the game then the boys side at the top level.

    Your last line all the big clubs are like this is very sweeping and you offer nothing to back up such a massive accusation. You know this how? Have you actually seen the costs and expenses for the big clubs in Illinois. I have and I am not speaking from hearsay I am speaking from fact. Now I am the first to admit as I did at the start of this post that I should have been more specific in that I was talking from direct experience only from this region. So I will admit I do not know with certainty how the finances are in California at the top level. Although I do have very good contacts within the top level of the game in California so I could ask if I had the right info.
     
  11. eire4

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    There is no question that the Galaxy will get a real run for their money at the MLS level now in the southern California market now unlike the joke that was Chivas USA.
     
  12. Diegan

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    I don't have experience in Illinois, but I do have pretty extensive experience in the US as a whole, between Florida, Northern Virginia, and California. These are three areas that have produced a disproportionate amount of national teamers, and *all* the big clubs in these regions charge a * ton. In San Diego, my experience is with Surf and Nomads. I also have experience in Northern Virginia, with another prestigious club, where we did play futsal in the winter, but those were extra fees on top of the normal outdoors fees. I learned * all from any of these places except for how to run circles around smaller kids because I happened to be a 6'0 155lbs 12 year old. (I ended up being a 6'1, 160 lbs 18 year old, so a lot of good that did!) But it's not just me, there are articles upon articles talking about the pay-to-play system. Out of curiosity, what clubs do you have experience with? I know that Illinois is just as much of a hotbed as Southern California and Northern Virginia (although it's a bit slower these days), and I had assumed that the big Chicago clubs like the Sockers and the Magic were the same. Here are a few articles that support my larger point though. And keep in mind when you read that there are often two seasons in a year, so many of these prices should be doubled.

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    "The cost of youth soccer these days is outrageous. Borge’s $1,395 team is a bargain compared to many travel programs where the base fee is $3,000 a year. “How can you charge that for just a year?” Scurry asks. “That’s ridiculous.” And yet two of her friends are paying more than that for their kids in the Virginia suburbs of Washington DC. Across the Potomac River, in Maryland, parents can pay up to $12,000 a year on soccer after adding the cost of travel to out-of-state tournaments."

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football

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    "Many leave for financial reasons. Kids interested in playing soccer must increasingly pay for apparel, equipment, team fees, coaches, trainers, tournament travel and field space. It’s not unusual for families to spend over $10,000 per child per year to play organized youth soccer. `

    The result is a system more attuned to identifying the best payers than the best players.

    Those remaining in what I call the pay-to-play soccer system increasingly sign up for high-cost tournaments like the annual Disney Boys’ Soccer Showcase, with the idea that it’ll increase their chances of being identified by the national team or college recruiters who frequent the expensive tournaments."

    https://theconversation.com/until-y...-mens-national-team-is-destined-to-fail-85585

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    "National team right-back DeAndre Yedlin spent time in his youth at the Emerald City club in Washington. Current fees for under-11 players run at about $1,300 per season. A uniform will set you back another $250 - $350. Then, there’s the team fees, which depend upon which tournaments are entered.

    Brad Guzan’s first club? Chicago Magic. Fees? $25 for a try-out and $2,095 upon registration.

    What about Boca Raton Junior Soccer Club where Jozy Altidore spent some time? The 'Academy Program' for top-level players aged 14-23 charges $3,000 per month plus $125 for a uniform.

    On the other coast, the renowned Patedores club charges parents of players between the ages of 11 and 13 around $1,950 per season.

    http://www.goal.com/en/news/how-man...osing-due-to-pay-to/4c10dtk0u17c16q7nsa1g3x4y
     
  13. eire4

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    I again emphasize the original post I made said in certain regions and I was more specific in my reply to you that in that I said Illinois and surrounding states. Funny you should mention Surf as one of their current top people is actually a personal friend of mine so I know his situation well.
    There is no doubt that given pay to play is a big part of the current youth model in the US that there are some top clubs out there who are exploiting people financially I am sure. Nonetheless everything you have posted there is all just fees charged nothing about the actual cost and expenses involved. I will not speak to the cost and expenses involved in California or elsewhere But here in Illinois the fees being charged have a direct relation to the costs involved in actually running the clubs. That is not to say some people are not making a decent living from coaching but again I see nothing wrong with that in general. You speak as a player who sadly as you say yourself learned * all from certain clubs and coaches not as someone who actually knows what the costs and expenses involved in running the whole club are. I know in intimate detail what it costs and what it takes financially and I can state with certainly that the fees charged by the top clubs in Illinois are not unreasonable.

    Now the other issue you bring up is that even despite MLS the pay to play model is still a major part of how the top level club system is financed in the US. The money has to come from somewhere and right now it is still pay to play to an extent unfortunately. But that is a completely different issue to whether a clubs fees are reasonable based on their costs. Those are 2 completely different topics.

    There is also the gender gap within the system. On the boys side MLS is of course now firmly established and many MLS academies are fully funded and free although not all and I can say again from personal knowledge that here the Chicago Fire used to be completely fully funded but has gone backwards in recent seasons reducing its academy budget so now while still free of fees it does involve the expenses being paid for by the parents.
    But the reality is that on the womans side the pay to play model is still very much the dominant model at the top level. The professional womens teams do not have the kind of academy structures that exist in MLS at least from a financial standpoint in terms of having the funds to have fully funded or even close to that. There is also the economic profiles of boys and clubs teams. In general the girls have less players playing coming from economically challenged homes this allows the pay to play model to be more stable on the girls side. So there is no question there is a difference in the economic profile typically of a top boys and top girls club.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  14. Diegan

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    Ok, I think I understand your perspective a bit more and, correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe you have a bit of skin in the game so I'll be a bit clearer. The numbers I listed above were total contributions through the year - uniforms, tournaments, etc. My biggest problem is that there is a youth soccer economy in the states that is incredibly expensive in the US for most families. I have experience, like I said, at big clubs in Virginia, California, and to a lesser extent Florida. I also have experience with the youth scene in Australia, Norway, Switzerland, Argentina, and Egypt (well, Cairo). It's just a different world. If I recall correctly, you're from Ireland, right? Even you must admit that the structure is completely different?

    My brother played for the same club that Tom Rogic played for. His fees were a fraction of the price he got at the big-name club in California, but the coaching was a lot better. I was never quite as good, but even for me my best coach ever was in Australia, an Italian guy whose son was on my team who had a day job as a screen installer. But everything was different. Our clubs had senior teams that played in the ACT Premier Leaue. In Norway, my neighborhood club is officially an idrettslag, a general sporting club. They have skiing, football, bandy, and a few other sports. They are quite cheap, even though the skiing club has produced numerous Olympians, more than one of whom has won Olympic gold. How on earth are they able to charge such lower prices? It's not the senior teams in themselves, as they produce no real revenue to speak of. My local club here is in the Norwegian fourth division. But in my opinion it's due to the neighborhood aspect of the clubs. They are not products that you buy, they are institutions. People are part of it because they want to, but they are still committed. Why did my scree-installing youth coach in Australia manage to have an advanced Australian certification? Why does my local club here in Røa get to set a minimum level of UEFA coaching qualifications for their youth coaches? If we want to go to an extreme, look at Iceland and Spain, where you can't swing a stick without hitting a normal dad who's a stone mason but also manages to have a UEFA A-license.

    Contrast this with the US, and youth clubs are a product that is packaged and sold. You buy your own shirt every year - why? Who the * knows? You go to countless tournaments throughout the year, most of which require overnight hotels. Sometimes you'll play 2-3 matches over a weekend. Why? Because college scouts are there! (I have a theory, by the way: if Liga MX scouts aren't there, the tournament is a useless expense of money) I agree that coaches need a bit of money, but what is usually done as neighborhood charity in other places (the administration jobs), what is normally done as neighborhood outreach (getting new equipment, especially for those who can't afford it, and paying for travel expenses), and a host of other things are externalized to the parents because these are brands rather than neighborhood institutions. Now, of course, part of that is due to the youth sports landscape in the US, where being part of a winning team gets you attention from college scouts, which is the only route to professionalism in all other American sports. But even there most of the problem is alleviated by the fact that High School sports are more important than club sports, with possibly the exception of basketball. But where I do have a problem is that most youth clubs don't even try to fix this. There is no outreach to other sports, there is no neighborhood aspect, except in the Latino neighborhoods where, surprise surprise, the costs are not nearly as high yet they still manage to produce * good players.

    So I'm not arguing that youth soccer in the US is engaged in some sort of massive fraud. I'm saying that structurally the system is set up to fail and that the costs are placed on the backs of parents, but that the youth clubs have no incentive to change this as long as they keep getting money. And I'm sorry, but money does seem to be the most important thing to a lot of these clubs. If it weren't, many of these structural problems would have been addressed before MLS clubs came in and started just destroying them in competition.
     
  15. eire4

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    Diegan. Lets just say I work on the professional side of the game here in the US but am very in tune with what is happening at the top youth level. The point your making about the structure of the game being wrong is perfectly valid. I could not agree more with you. There is no question about that. The essential point is that at the end of the day to produce top players there are costs involved. In most parts of Europe the professional clubs cover the costs involved but that is not to say its is free. The clubs involved still have to earn the money be it through TV, sponsorships etc. The coaches are still paid. I can tell you having spent time at Celtic learning how things operate with Celtic's academy that our club makes a real financial commitment to our academy structure. When I say our club in this case I of course mean Celtic:)
    In the US most of the money comes from parents as the professional game is still really in its infancy here. As I mentioned before Chicago Fire have significantly cut back on the money they allocate to the academy as an example that even at the MLS level there is still a ways to go.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  16. Vader Batshitcrazy Gold Member

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  17. Diegan

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    Sorry, didn't see this post, but I agree with that in large part. My biggest issue is that Australia and Norway have similar issues - but somehow Belconnen United - who lose money if anything on their senior team - has managed to turn out just as many good players as San Diego Surf. I've worked in NGOs for much of my professional life, and I've seen very well how bureaucratic bloat can sustain itself by making itself seem necessary. My suspicion is that many American clubs developed their business model before creating competitive players was a goal. The structure is set up to be a business targeting middle-class families who are hoping to showcase their kids to universities. It doesn't work well to develop talent, and other small clubs without senior teams manage to get by in other countries.
     
  18. Notorious Gold Member Gold Member

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    Zlatan Ibrahimovic makes his debut for LA

     
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  19. Nasser

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    What a story, 3-0 down after 70 odd mins and Zlatan scored twice to win them the game 4-3

    All the goals
     
  20. Notorious Gold Member Gold Member

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    Gif of the Big Z first

    [​IMG]