Game of Thrones

Aye, they would have put it on further like HBO wanted, with bigger budget like they were offered, if they weren’t going on to Star Wars. I have an issue with that but that final episode was * unreal

Now that, is absolute bullshit IMO. Which is ironic if you’re flinging about accusations of not understanding ‘good writing’

 

As a show overall, it will always be one of the greatest. Personally, I still absolutely love it overall. But that final season has maybe just knocked it off the top spot for me. It's never easy to wrap up a show, particularly one of the scale of GoT. But everything about this season was just far too rushed. Everything.

Spoiler

Yes the conclusion would still be the same, but it removes so much tension, emotion and logic by having massive events happen one minute after the other and not allowing the story room to breathe. In the space of 4 episodes we've had the Night King and his army reach Winterfell and be defeated. Cersei overthrown and King's Landing burned to the ground, thanks to a Dany mad queen turn that was forced as *. Dany killed by Jon and every head of the houses of Westeros teleport to King's Landing to create democracy. Plus the deaths of Jaime, the Hound, Missandei, Varys, Jorah, Rhaegal, Qyburn, the Mountain and Euron. Plus the Dothraki and Unsullied were annihilated then magically respawned in their thousands.

 

I think you'll find that you are in the vast minority for that opinion but you believe what makes you feel better

 

Not at all.

It's not went from being the greatest ever to a piece of *. It's still a great TV show. But ruining years of character development and build up just to rush through big set pieces and explosions is going to * people off.

 

Maybe you could try explaining why, instead of just saying that other people agree with you?

 

It is. You just said yourself it’s a great TV show, therefore it hasn’t been “ruined”. It’s far from a piece of *.

People just keep throwing out buzz words like character development, etc and not actually explaining what their problems are with it.

The only problem was that it was rushed, that’s it.

 

Yep.

Spoiler

Jon, the true heir to the throne let's not forget, has been sent to the wall to live out his life because Grey Worm (who went from a C list character to an A list character this season) wasn't happy that a woman who massacred a city of civilians got killed. Grey Worm, who just * off to Naath so won't even be in Westeros for the foreseeable.

That's another thing. I know his bird got killed, but when did Grey Worm become okay with innocents being slaughtered in their thousands? Are we to believe that Missandei dying completely changed his entire personality and moral centre?

 

Pretty much sums up what I think 100%.

 

Character development...

Spoiler

Jaime had 7 seasons of redemption. Explaining to Brienne that he killed the mad king because he was going to burn King's Landing to the ground. He's shown for years that he has a good heart, and despite his love for Cersei, he wated to be a better person. So what happens in season 8? He shags Brienne after clearly both of them were..."flirting" for long enough, then decides after one night that he wants to leave and go back to Cersei. Telling Tyrion that "he never much cared for innocents".

That right there is a complete betrayal of his character development and arc. That's obvious to anyone who was been watching the show.

Dany going from a ruthless leader, who wasn't afraid to kill her enemies - to a mass murderer after her boyfriend doesn't want her. She said last season she doesn't want to be the "queen of ashes" - yet she decides to slaughter a city after it's surrendered. Because logic.

Tyrion was always one of the smartest men in Westeros. Varys the same. Yet both of them, and Jon and Dany and Davos and Grey Worm and Sansa and everyone forgot that Euron was a person and he had a fleet of ships. They forgot about him and so one of her dragons died.

They've been telling and showing us the nature of characters for 8 years, but because they wanted to rush to the end of the show, they've completely flipped a number of characters and they thought people would be thick enough not to pick up on it.

 

The main problem is that they rushed it, and in doing so completely * butchered several characters. I don't understand why some people can't see that?

 

Spoiler

Jon is the heir but he’s never wanted the power, never wanted to rule. It is his character to not. That was one of the things I loved about the ending. In the very first episode you find out that Sansa wanted to be Queen, Arya wanted to be free from the confines of expectations to be a lady and Jon’s wanted to take the black. Throughout Job’s full character arc it’s been shown he’s at his happiest and at his best in the North. Whether that was with Edd and Sam or the Wildlings.

I thought it was perfect.


When it comes to Grey Worm, Grey Worm is the leader of the most powerful army in the world after Dany’s death.

As an Unsullied he has been bred for nothing but war, to even be an Unsullied you need to murder a new born child infront of their mother. They had become free under Dany but they were never and Grey Worm was never a peaceful man. Missandei, in his eyes, was his opportunity to be one and with her death he fully embraced what he had been brought up to do. Unquestionably follow orders and relish in the brutality.

Even going to Naath, he’s just following what Missandei wanted him to do. He struggles to do anything for himself, to have his own identity and that is the basis of his character, not any sort of moral centre or ‘good’ in him. It’s his will and ability.

 

Spoiler

Jon never wanted to be king, aye, but my point is that he is and should be the most powerful man in Westeros. As we've been told a million times, maybe the best person to rule is someone who doesn't want to rule. At the very least, he shouldn't be sent to the wall with a bunch of rapists and murderers. He killed a psychopath who had slaughtered a city of innocents.

So * what if Grey Worm wasn't happy. Who is he to the Vale and to Dorne? A warrior. Not a lord, not a nobleman. He was one of the most trusted allies of a nutcase, killed soldiers who had surrendered and plundered a city of innocents. He's a war criminal and should have been treated as such. See if Jon had been pardoned and said "'I'm going North, where I belong" - I'd have been chuffed with that. It would have made sense. But sentencing a hero to a life at the wall? Bollocks.

 

Spoiler

See again, I always think that’s people not understanding Jaime’s character. Fundamentally he struggles to be a good person - but he’s not - he never has been. He’s a rapist, he’s a murderer and he is a selfish person. He isn’t one dimensional for that, he really struggles to grow, he tries hard and really the only thing he thinks that matters to him is his siblings.

The further he got from her and when faced with an apocolypse he does abandon her but he doesn’t do it to betray her - he does it so they won’t be wiped out after Night’s King wiped out Winterfell and by extension - the North.

We see him getting beyond it, becoming a better person but Jaime know’s what he’s done, Jaime know’s what he’s capable of, Jaime know’s everything he’s done in his life is for Cersie, he has his happily ever after but it’s not what he is or what he wants.

That’s why he goes back and it baffles me people don’t think that’s character development, it’s * exceptional.

Again, my biggest problem is the speed it’s delivered at. Again, very, very rushed and could have been handled better. I just really wish they done this over the span of two seasons - full 10 episodes for each[\SPOILER]

 

Spoiler

And what would you have Jon do? Raise the North, go to war again to claim the Throne for himself? That sort of thing would be ignoring his character.

Grey Worm is the Commander of one of the most powerful armies in the world mate. [\SPOILER]

 

It would take an essay but I'll try going from smallest infraction to largest:

Spoiler

Theon: The best resolution.

Sansa, Cersei: Fine with their arcs.

Arya: Deus Ex Machina, then does nothing. Evidently an afterthought after she gave the writers what they needed to get rid of that pesky complicated Army of the Dead plotline. Whatever.

Dany: We knew she was going mad, but she did it on the flip of a coin with the bells. This is something that could have been fixed with more episodes, but D&D turned this down because they had to go suck at the * of their new Star Wars cash cow. Aside from that, the "She just kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet" line from Benioff actually infuriates me. She mentions the Iron Fleet a good 5 times in war planning scenes across the previous 2 seasons. That's a clear example of lazy writing, aside from how stupid and inconsistent that use of the ballistas was with their use later on.

Euron: Actually pointless and a terrible character.

Tyrion: Before this season, actually one of the smartest men in the world. This season, naive *. Early show Tyrion would not have grassed on Varys, he'd have seen the plainly obvious growing insanity. Castrated of anything that made him interesting as a character.

Jon: Before this season, a mirror of Ned. Honor and duty and putting the needs of the many over the petty squabbles of men. This season, castrated. Stood around looking broody about his * muffin murdering the world but not saying anything. It took an actual 10 minute (!!!) lecture to make him wake the * up. Aside from how much this scene killed the pace of the episode, this is a hallmark of bad writing - if something is written properly, the point is evident to the viewer and doesn't need to be literally explained. Any writer will tell you that is the definition of BAD WRITING. Also lol go back to the Night's Watch which now has no reason to exist.

Bran: Before this season, "I have ascended and am something else. I do not share the concerns of men because I am the memory of all men." This season, "Lol ok I'll be king lol." Completely antithetical to his character in every way.

Jaime/Brienne: Absolutely * unforgivable what they did to these character arcs. 7 seasons of buildup, Jaime realizing Cersei is evil, she sends him north to die and he outright acknowledges this in the show. Meets Brienne, who turns the ignoble man noble. Has an assassin announce to him that Cersei wants him dead. Goes south to confront her...
And it's all good writing up to this point...
And he does NOTHING. Falls back into her arms. I see people saying "Ohh but it's hard to change your feelings!" * you. A looping character arc is not a character arc. It's a dot. It's lazy * writing because they couldn't think of a better way to finish his story. The worst offense of them all. There was absolutely no point to anything they did across the show because of this.

May update later with more complaints. I highly recommend watching The Dragon Demands on YouTube - he's an admin of the GoT wiki and his videos point out every piece of lazy writing in the show.

As I said, the reason this went to * was purely selfish from D&D. They were offered up to 10 seasons, and even a 10-episode S8, but they wanted to go do Star Wars so wrapped it up roughshod and sloppy in 6. They will be remembered as some of the worst TV writers in history by the actual professionals.

 

Spoiler

It was rushed and that's what completely butchered it. Could I see Jaime going back to Cersei despite everything she's done? Probably. But not after a couple of nights away from her. Not after being told by Bronn a few hours earlier that Cersei had paid him to kill Jaime and Tyrion.

Again, that's still not even my biggest problem. One of the worst moments of the entire show was the line to Tyrio about not caring about innocents. What a * betrayal of his character and a slap in the face to everyone who watches the show.

 

I’ll answer the points by points later, I get where you’re coming from with a lot of it. The last part you’re spot on though.

It was rushed due to Star Wars, and it shouldn’t have been. I watch that on YouTube btw.

 

Spoiler

See it’ the line about innocents that shows what Jaime think’s he is. He remembers throwing an innocent Brann out of a tower, he remembers killing his innocent cousin, he remembers any number of terrible things he has done. He hasn’t much cared about innocents, except he actually has, we see him do so.

He just doesn’t believe that himself. [\SPOILER]