Is the targeting of Irish rebel songs discriminatory/sectarian?

Whenever the annual, pantomime discussion about sectarianism in Scottish football recurs, you can predict (with stunning accuracy) how the general, lowbrow discourse will go…

'It’s an Old Firm problem'

'One’s as bad as the other'

'We don’t know who is sending these bombs or why they’re doing it'

In other words, it’s a two way street. If one has a problem, then so too, does the other. (Yes I know… breathtaking logic, I hope you’re all sitting down)

It’s not that difficult to go through the traditional Rangers songbook and find tunes which are blatantly racist or sectarian.

The Billy Boys, No Pope of Rome and The Famine Song are just a select few.

Any song in the Celtic repertoire which could be considered a corresponding match? The best I can think of is probably 'Roamin in the Gloamin' (and even that’s stretching it) which references how great it is to be a Roman Catholic; but even then, it doesn’t quite have the same viciousness as being up to your knees in Protestant blood, does it?

I think it’s pretty obvious, Celtic does not have a problem with its supporters with regards to sectarianism (based on the actual definition, not the pseudo Scottish one)

In fact, any person steeped in Celtic’s history would know, it’s the antithesis of Celtic’s ethos to engage in any such behaviour. We were set up for the poor Irish and Scottish working class of Glasgow, whether they were Catholic or Protestant. This is proudly reflected in our history, where hundreds of great Protestant men have been among our most revered figures, not token signings to make up a contemporary, non-sectarian quota.

However, in Scotland, the ill-educated has always found justification to liken us with The Shame, that justification being: Celtic fans sing Irish rebel songs, ergo, we arrive at 'one’s as bad as the other' fallacy.

But isn’t this just a really poor cop out? Trying to liken songs of Irish freedom with songs about hatred and genocide?

I believe there is even a small minority within our support who naively subscribe to this tabloid myth.

It’s frequently been suggested that politics has no place in football, and therefore songs which depict any kind of historical or political conflict are to be actively discouraged. So then, is the justification for creating the perception that some of our songs are 'offensive' or 'distasteful' based on the fact Irish rebel songs are political?

Well, I’m not convinced. I feel, this too, is a poor cop out.

The reason being; when Rangers gave up their sectarian singing last year (or at least attempted to, following further Uefa condemnation) they chanted songs such as Build My Gallows, Father’s Advice, Derry’s Walls and Rule Britannia to universal acclaim.

Well… all of these songs are Loyalist and subsequently political in nature. So why then are Rangers fans allowed an uninhibited reign to sing these anthems, yet ballads which lament Ireland's struggle for freedom are erroneously categorised with songs such as The Famine Song?

Let’s be clear, songs such as the Billy Boys or No Pope of Rome are not the equivalent to songs such as Boys of The Old Brigade, Merry Ploughboy or Sean South of Garryowen

The former are nakedly sectarian in nature, the latter patently are not.

So then, what is the problem with Boys of The Old Brigade? Political? Non-football? Offensive? Well, no, that can’t be it either, because as I’ve just illustrated, political songs of a Loyalist nature are actively praised as if they stipulate some kind of move away from sectarianism.

So is it a case of, Loyalist songs are ok, but Irish rebel songs aren’t?

Well, if that is the case (and that blatantly is the case) then I can only conclude that the reasoning behind the vilification of Irish rebel songs is sectarian.

Incidentally, there must have been some pretty red faces when the Queen laid a wreath and bowed her head in respect to those who fought and died in the name of Irish freedom.

If the head of the British state – acting on behalf of her subjects – can openly commemorate the IRA, then it would be embarrassingly hypocritical to punish a section of football fans for doing the same thing.

 

Sectarian and bigotted terms need to be replaced with 'innapropriate'.

Not that it happens at Celtic Park but the inclusion of IRA addons shouldn't be done at CP or the away grounds.

I KNOW the difference between the IRA and the likes of the PIRA and I don't think for a minute that MOST fans that do the addons are singing about the terrorist outfits but the old IRA.

If I had my way I'd have songs bout Celtic, pop songs turned Celticy i-e Just can't get enough and the songs such as Arthenry and This Land

 

Sorry, but what you think people are thinking is irrelevant. The fact is, Boys of the Old Brigade is about the War of Independence; you can’t just ban something on the suspicion that the person next to you might be thinking about something else.

Get a grip ffs. What's next, the guy beside you thinks Just Can't Get Enough is about his favourite desert.

 

Whats wrong with singing songs glorifying or supporting the PIRA? They are now part of the Government of the North of Ireland.....I mean even legally it surely is on shaky ground!!?? The Provisional irish Republican Army are now part of the Partitionist government. Songs relating to that organisation are considered illegal?

 

The reason they are deemed sectarian is the songs are in support of organisations who are in armed struggle against a state in which Scotland is apart of.

This debate will arise time and time again without altering the mindset of those whom agree or disagree with singing them.

I think its best to stick to common ground on the fact that we all Celtic supporters and respect each others decisions and views, as continuing debates like these will only stem to create divisions among us which IMO serves no purpose to the fans or the club.

 

Nothing.

 

Sorry, what?

 

Something we may need the assistance of a good QC for in the future...?

 

I understand....we are British?? I'm afraid you too are deemed British in the Occupied 6 Counties. I am as British as you are mo chara.

 

It’s a difficult one I suppose.

Technically the PIRA were a proscribed organisation; meaning that exhibiting support for them could be construed as supporting terrorism under the terms of the law.

However, as you say, the Provos are now in government administering rule in a devolved part of the United Kingdom.

So it’s shaky at best. However, the reason I made allusions to the Old IRA is because, most of our rebel songs do tend to focus on them.

Roll of Honour is probably the only PIRA song that gets a regular airing. But even then, I don’t think there is anything wrong with singing about a man who was elected to the British parliament with more votes than the Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher.

But the point of the thread wasn’t to get into a discussion about the IRA, it was to demonstrate how there is little wrong with our rebel songs.

Because if Loyalist and British political songs are allowed to be sung without rebuke, then it would be hypocritical to prevent those of Irish extraction to sing songs about Ireland, surely?

If not, there must be a discriminatory factor present.

 

This is a common misconception about the Six Counties.

Nobody in the North is legally obligated to be British. Irish citizenship encompasses the entire island – even the occupied North – so upon birth Nationalists are automatically entitled to receive their Irish citizenship.

I’ve never held a British passport in my life.

This was ironed out the Good Friday Agreement. And this is why players born in the North are legally allowed to play for the Free State/ROI.

 

the only thing thats sung that can be termed out of order is "oo ah up the ra."
theres other songs of irish heritage that are on a par with flower of scotland and other songs of patriotism. they cannot be deemed sectarian.
i suspect that the powers that be will compile a list.....that will cause great wringing of hands.

 

I am saying this is why they portray the songs we sing at Celtic park sectarian and Scotland is a part of the British Isles who have a valid interest in the North of Ireland due to the fact it sends its soldiers here to murder Nationalists.

 

I completely understand that RB, however the fact is the Brits see the 6 Counties as part of their dominion. I know your not British, I was slightly * off at being labelled British myself. I believe that Scots and Welsh are not British unless they want to be.