Is Anyone Else Getting Fed Up With The Conspiracy Nonsense?

How about the refs actually do their * job without being biased cheating * for change?

No team should have to be ten times better than another team to get a win.

 

This may be my 1st post on here. I live in the USA but subscribe to Channel 67 - never miss a game and get to Scotland at least 1-2 times/year to watch Celtic.

I like Neil Lennon and he has built a good young team who are exciting to watch as well as being successful.

The referee decisions in the recent defeats to Kilmarnock, Rangers and Hibs have been poor.

However what I do not like is the fact that all of the furor over the poor refereeing decisions tends to gloss over the fact that in all 3 games, the team has not performed well.

The worry is that if the management team and the players spend all of their time making excuses (refereeing) then will they ever really address the things which they themselves can control: performance level, team tactics, discipline, mental strength when team falls behind etc..

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Hint: it's because the person doing the accusing is in fact a caricature of the "paranoid Celtic fan" stereotype.

 

Because anyone can see what's staring them in the face and Neil can see it too. So if Celtic fans can see it, Neil can see it, Paul McBride seen it and many others have seen it. The natural question for those who don't see it, is why not?

 

Welcome to the forum.

I think what you have said there is absolutely fair comment. Celtic did not play well against Kilmarnock, Rangers or Hearts. That has been very disappointing to see. The referees have certainly played their part in our downfall in all 3 of these matches but we also have to be aware of how poorly we have played too.

I was disappointed to hear Alan Thompson say that we had played really well yesterday. That's just clearly not the case in my opinion. The players have to be man enough to accept some criticism when it's warranted. It would have been warranted yesterday.

 

alright, that didn't really answer the question...

 

Because sometimes people are looking for things that are just not there.

 

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Because the castigation of Lennon has taken a rather personal slant.

I’ve been massively critical of Neil Lennon. I’ve just never been critical of the way he conducts himself, because to be honest, I don’t care.

I’m more concerned about the team and how it plays.

If Lennon is getting it wrong, I’m the first to criticise him for it, but I will not criticise him for confronting bigotry and institutionalised cheating.

 

There's a term that describes the paranoid mob on here quite well. It's called 'Confirmation Bias'. In a nutshell, it is the tendency of people to favor evidence that supports their beliefs.

In other words, people have already decided what they think. Common beliefs are: 'The SFA has been infiltrated by huns', 'The referee is out to get us', 'We don't get any decisions'.

People have their mind made up that these things are true, so when they find evidence that appears to confirm their beliefs, then as far as they are concerned, their beliefs have been proven. Hence the stubborn and almost dogmatic belief in the conspiracy nonsense.

The conspiracy brigade RARELY mentions any decisions that have went for us. And trust me, over the years, there have been MANY. I usually watch Celtic games with friends who support non-Old Firm teams, so I have the insight of the neutral on most occasions. On some occasions, I'm watching football with supporters of Celtic's opposition in whatever game. With their perspective (not that I needed it but it helped) I see that Celtic get the majority of decisions go in their favor most of the time in Scotland.

Be it an unclear corner/goal kick decision, foul decision, bookable offense decision, extra time decisions, you almost always see a pro-Celtic bias against smaller clubs. It's been said about Old Trafford or Stamford Bridge; the reason for this is simple human nature. As a ref you are going to make mistakes, and if you are surrounded by tens of thousands of people who are all calling on you to make the decision they want you to make, unless you are a world class referee, its going to affect your decision making.

This is all fine and true, I hear you say, but we still get given dodgy decisions against us.

Well, if you can name one professional referee that never made a bad decision in his whole career, I'll eat my sock. Some fans expect Celtic to go onto the pitch and perform flawlessly. A similar amount of people expect the referee to do the same. Let's face it - it's never gonna happen. Even the referees in international competitions make mistakes.

Some people need to accept that referees aren't perfect. I personally think the standard of refereeing should be higher in a league with the comparatively large resources that the SPL has. But in no way do I think the bad decisions are a sign of some underground mission to make us lose football matches. If something like that was happening, I suspect the gambling industry and FIFA would have got to the root of it long ago.

To conclude, Celtic will lose games. Get over it and take off your tin foil hat - it's not working!

 

Of course this theory could equally be applied in the opposite

and this lends weight to it. Perhaps you want to have a little check of who have the prominent jobs within the SFA before you attempt to be so dismissive.

 

Gonna cherry pick a point from my previous post for people too lazy to read the whole thing.

If there was an underground campaign to get Celtic to lose matches, FIFA and the gambling industry would have gotten to the root of it long ago. FIFA and the gambling industry are both international, multi-billion pound industries with regulators and watchdogs in place that are constantly looking for rule-breakers.

Celtic fans create enough publicity for them to notice the anti-Celtic conspiracy. It's something they've no doubt looked into as its their job to do so and they don't give a rats * about whether you're a hun or a *, or any of that nonsense. They look objectively and purposefully, and have they ever announced that they've found anything dodgy? Nope.

 

Yeah it could be, but how many people on here go on about a 'pro-Celtic conspiracy'? No one! Because we like to think that when we win, it was because we played well, not because there's a system in place designed to make sure we win. Fact is, you can cherry pick the bad decisions and call it an anti-Celtic conspiracy, and you can cherry pick the good decisions and call it a pro-Celtic conspiracy, but if you step back and realize that we get bad decisions and good decisions, both conclusions are rendered invalid.

We're left with but one solution - referees are inconsistent. That's about all you can conclude.

Yes, I'm dismissing the conspiracy, but trying to put forward my reasoning rather than being bluntly dismissive.
Yes, former huns are part of the SFA, but aren't there also former Celtic people at the SFA too?

 

There's no secret agenda against Celtic. Officials don't meet down dark alleys exchanging notes written in invisible ink dictating how to let Celtic games unfold.

But Rangers are the establishment team, and Celtic are the "rebels".
There are many Rangers men who have been, and still are in, positions of power in Scottish football - I don't think there are currently (or have ever been) people of Celtic persuasion in the lobbeys of SFA/SPL power.

Celtic represent Irish people and Catholic people. They are not strictly for Irish or Catholic people, they will accept anyone of any type, but there is no denying the massive connection between these demographics and the club.

Irish and Catholic people have historically been discriminated against by the establishment, whether it be an average man having to alter his CV so that prospective employers don't find out he went to a Catholic school, or whether it be Rangers not signing a single Catholic player for over a century.

The fact that Rangers are the establishment club and the fact that people associated with Celtic have long been discriminated against, in my opinion, seem obviously to go hand in hand with the fact that in the present day many incredibly dubious decisions in football matches go against Celtic Football Club.

All clubs have bad decisions which go against them, but I can't think of any reasons beyond human error which account for the decisions for these other clubs.
Tottenham have, in recent years, had 2 terrible goals awarded against them versus Chelsea and 1 I remember vs Man U (the English establishment club) but there is no reported history of anti-Tottenham or anti-Jewish practices at the English FA or in English society as a whole.

Infact, what could be described as a "racist" joke about Irish people will be seen just as a joke, and laughed off by all including most Irish.
But a similar joke mocking or ridiculing Jewish people will and is received in a much harsher tone, and is liable to be punished by the authorities.

Now i'm not saying everyone who tells a "paddy" joke should be behind bars, i'm not Irish or a Catholic or a sensitive person and frankly I don't give a * about much else besides football, but the FACTS are staring me - and you whoever's reading this - straight in the face.

And those facts are that no other club in Britain, and I doubt many in Europe besides Athletic Bilbao and Barcelona (the only ones I can think of) have suffered so much historical prejudice against them and the people who support them.

The recent bad decisions against Celtic may genuinely just be honest mistakes, but when you put together the 2+2 of historical evidence, it's incredibly hard not to come out with 4.

No smoke without fire?

 

What I meant is that there are far too many who dismiss the chance that there could be a bias against us. This I find astonishing as we have proven there to be in the past.

As for Celtic men in the SFA, this has been a recent thing. The truth of the matter is that for far too long there have been far too many there with dierct links to one club and others who are known supporters of them.

The demographic of the nation alone suggets that there will be a fair few within the corridors of power that have leanings towards them. Thats not to say they are exclusive, just too many to make it easy to dismiss the chance of favouritism. Even the recent events have shown just how many want to preserve them as best they can, both in and out of football for that matter. I would ask is there any other club in Scotland who would receive such favourable reviews given the lengths they have went to (racking up debt) to get where they are. In fact I would also ask would there be any other company who would be afforded every possible chance of surviving at the level they currently are. Personally I dont think there would be.

 

Agreed mate.

There will always be a certain amount who keep to their paranoid beliefs in order to make themselves feel better though.

The thought of a conspiracy and some sinister ploy against Celtic F.C in 2012 is laughable to be honest.
Try incompetence and human error? No there's always a conspiracy.

I honestly think it makes us look pathetic at times.

Maybe the management and the board have recognised it as a good and useful deflection from their own failings at various times in recent years.

How come there was no mention of all this when O'Neil & Strachan we're in charge? Quite simple really. they wouldn't have stood for it.

 

When the head of refereeing in Scotland is sacked for sending offensive emails regarding the head of the Protestant church, I'll stop worrying (Hugh Dallas).

When a referee has to resign because he has lied and forced others to lie to the Rangers manager, I'll stop worrying (Dougie McDonald).

When the chief executive of the SFA purposely holds back a players registration to stop him playing for Rangers, I'll stop worrying (Jim Farry).

All these incidents are recent and have been exposed by Celtic people, Lennon, McBride, Fergus. Hasn't Celtic 'paranoia' helped expose these cases? The reason we are 'paranoid' is because of these things not because there's nothing to be paranoid about. If anyone on here thinks the Scottish game hasn't been full of anti-catholic, anti-Celtic and anti-Irish bigots for decades then they certainly don't know their history. It's enough to make your heart go.......Cheating. Hun. *.

 

Sometimes the calls are just so blatantly obvious, other times it's kind of embarrassing to see some of the posts and claims people put on here.

 

I must say, I find it absolutely disgraceful how people can ridicule their fellow Celtic supporters for accepting something that has been proven. Instiutionalised cheating and bias against Celtic within the SFA and Scottish football in general has been unearthed on a number of occasions. Those who fail to accept that fact, have either started following Celtic yesterday or well and truely have their heads buried in the sand. The Celtic support were ridiculed and declared paranoid in the build-up to the Jim Farry scandal, the 'Dougie! Dougie!' scandal, the conduct of Hugh Dallas, the conduct of George Peat, the conduct of Gordon Smith, the conduct of Campbel Ogilvie etc and have been proved right to be 'paranoid' on every occasion.

The only thing I find embarrassing are threads such as this one, and Celtic supporters who fail to see something which is staring them in the face. I suggest they read up on what Celtic greats like Jock Stein, Billy McNeill, Davie Hay really said about referees and the SFA, and what journalists like Kevin McCarra in the 1990s unearthed.