Brendan Rodgers Discussion Thread

Literally no one is currently expecting us to sweep up a treble and compete in europe, only that performances should be better and a little more consistent. That's not unreasonable.

Wether you care or not about last season anymore doesn't make the point any less relevant. Performances have been by and large poor for 10 months now.

You're right football isn't played on paper. But you're being somewhat guilty of that yourself. Bad transfer window ergo nothing the manager can do, performances must be bad is a pretty black and white argument. Now that is actually hypocritical.

Lastly I haven't called for Rodgers to be sacked, yet. Only stated that he should be doing better. If we see more of what we saw on Thursday, then job done. If we slip back into the same turgid, insipid * we've been watching for the best part of a year, then not so much.

 

There are plenty of people expecting us still to win the league and progress in the domestic cups. The main argument is that Rodgers still has a squad capable of winning every week domestically.

The 10 month narrative is a lazy one. There are still good wins in there and we won a double and put in a good shift in the Champions League. I'd take that every single season. We were the cup final away from the perfect season. Its being completely over exaggerated.

There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about what I'm saying and its perfectly simple to understand. The window was bad, the squad is poor, and taking into account now the injuries we have its very unlikely our football will improve on a consistent basis. What exactly is hypocritical by saying that Brendan is going to struggle? Any manager would struggle with the options we have. You can always improve on a 2-0 loss at Dundee. Never stated other wise. But as I've said all along I don't see where the goals are coming from in our team. And thats down to recruitment. With Iheanacho injured, who wasn't scoring that many goals anyway, you can't coach who's remaining to score the goals we've lost from Kyogo, Kuhn and Idah. Simple as that. Lesser quality means lesser output.

 

Its not my argument that we should be winning every week. You are arguing against a point im not making.

There are still very good players on the pitch in most positions every game who are without conflicting circumstances. Despite how bad the window was there were still some good players brought in. Performances should be better.

Its not lazy, performances and style of play have been on the wane for 10 months. That can't be ignored. I have also previously recognised that period was punctuated with decent results and performances.

To dismiss a black/white argument then go on to use one is the very definition of hypocrisy.

Mitigating circumstances should and will be taken into account for upcoming results and style of play, absolutely, particularly tomorrow. Lacklustre performances, like what we have been watching for the most for the best part of a year will continue to be inexcusable.

 

It's been since February when we exited the CL. The league was all but over so players taking their foot off the gas is pretty normal. There was still some good performances in there as well. Hence why we finished last season with a record goal difference in all comps. You don't achieve that by being boring/poor for half a season as some fans want to portray. The cup final against Aberdeen was pish, no doubt about that, I think that game alone however has really skewed opinions on the season as a whole. Had we got over the line (if my aunty had baws n all that I know) then I don't think we would be having these discussions. Anyone seriously judging Rodgers on this season as a manager however has an agenda in my opinion. You can't have a window like we did, fans protesting, players here who want away etc and it not negatively impact on the team. That goes for any manager. Should we still win the league with the team we have? Aye, I'd say we should. There is going to be plenty pish performances along the way though. We have taken loads of goals out the team and brought in players who aren't prolific.

 

Who are the good players we brought in? Tounekti and Balikwisha for the same position when we actually needed a right winger to replace Kuhn? We did not sign any players for the key positions that we needed, and had to rely on Brendan to dig out the phonebook for Iheanacho. Defending our recruitment is pointless, there's no way you can dress it up as any way acceptable. Yes we have some good defenders and midfielders. I've never said otherwise. I'm specifically referring to the key players we've sold and failed to replace, who were responsible for scoring the vast majority of our goals. And what is our biggest issue this season? Scoring goals. The very thing required to win games.

I never ignored your forced 10 month narrative, I've posted previously as to why its flawed and not wholly accurate.

You may be using a black and white argument, I'm not. I've backed up every point with reasons why I believe that recruitment is the fundamental issue at the club. The fact that you're choosing to try and label it as black and white to try and force the hypocrite argument is a desperate stretch to try and claim some sort of high ground in the discussion.

 

Certainly had us quicker and more aggressive in attack on Thursday. Hopefully that continues

 

You are wasting your time with him. He @Champions67 is a Rodger's apologist. He is not even prepared to agree or even consider that Rodgers should show managerial flexibility and adaptibility in certain games, and that he should have changed his tactics, formation, and personnel in the recent setbacks in the Hun games, Aberdeen in the Cup Final, the two Champions League games with the minnow Kairat, and now Dundee. He is only two willing to keep shifting the blame entirely back to the Board, without apportioning any blame whatsoever to the manager, and brush off all these significant losses within a relatively short time span, as nothing to worry about. They are a pattern, and a pattern of the rapidly diminishing managerial ability and acumen of Rodgers, unable to do anything about it.

Classic signs of a narcissist and egotist.

And we all know Rodgers is a narcissist and egotist.

 

I get why people are making comparisons to the COVID season but that was such a weird time in football I find it hard to draw parallels. This feels more similar so far to the 23-24 season. Knocked out of league cup in first round we played. We had a couple of 0 0s against St Johnstone and Hibs early in the season, we lost back to back against Killie and Hearts before January, and never won a game in the champions league group until we were already out. Always felt fans were right on the edge of meltdown.

It was a grind of a season and in part we were let off the hook due to rangers dropping daft points and bottling the end of the season. I expect both hearts and rangers to drop even more points than Rangers did that season. We just need to be better at grinding out wins and I think we will do just that.

 

I agree with all of that

There isn't really a reason for us to not win the league. Sure we are weaker than we should be, sure Hearts are better than they have been, sure the transfer window was a * show.

But we still have so many advantages over every single other team in the league. It's not even close. The only club that could get close are literally self-imploding.

Europe is different but in all honesty the standard in the Europa means we should be doing well there too. We are underperforming at present, I think we'll get better there too. Biggest worry I have is the type of football we are playing isn't great and I'd hate to see that continue as it's not enjoyable.

 

You know as much about football as you do nuclear physics. The definition of a * spewing throbber.

 

Tounekti, balikwisha, nygren and Tierney are all fairly good footballers, Sarrachi looks decent, the others cant be judged as we haven't seen anywhere near enough of them .
Stating that there were good players brought in, clearly a fact,is not defending a window I've previously agreed was poor. And you implying that I am defending the window is nothing more than a poor strawman argument. As is saying i have tried to "force" a hypocrite argument when you were called out on it once, correctly. Whereas you had originally doubled down on it, incorrectly.

You are using a black and white argument, poor window=poor performances. All you are using to back it up is your opinion and excuses.

If the only issue with our performances had been not taking chances then there would be no cause for complaint, my original point.
However, its not, we have been turgid and laboured all over the pitch in most games since the end of November. Pretty sure most, outside of the hardcore Rodgers defenders, would agree with this to some degree therefore not really my narrative.

To clarify -

It was a badly handled window

We failed badly at strengthening cf and rw

Our squad is still littered with international standard footballers.

We have been substandard since the turn of the year

Not expecting us to blow every opponent away

We were very good on Thursday against a decent side

Should we be seeing that more often- yes

Should Rodgers be sacked? Not as things stand

Should Rodgers be doing better? Yes

 

You are entirely wrong in regards to the black and white argument, I said the main reason our performances have been poor are due to poor recruitment and a downgraded squad. I have said multiple times that Brendan has not been perfect and can do better. I mentioned the Dundee result being abysmal and said there are of course things that he could have done better. So where you're getting black and white from that I have no idea. My initial point remains unchanged that no manager should be in this situation and that our recruitment and board actions over successive transfer windows are the key reasons as to why we've been below standard. I'm really not interested in your interpretation of that there's nothing you can say that's going to change my mind on that. Chris Sutton said very similar to myself yesterday and I fully agree with him. I don't see anyone calling him out for having a black and white or hypocritical argument. Its because that entire narrative you've spun is a lie because you were initially caught out being hypocritical in your own post which I pointed out at the time. You've now spent multiple posts trying to turn that round despite you knowing fine well I agree with pretty much every point you've clarified there. If you yourself agree that the window was poor, how can you criticise me for the same view? Saying the window was * and we have a downgraded squad isn't really an obscene opinion, I've yet to see a single person claim we have a better squad than we did last year.

In regards to your claims that the football has been * since November, go back that up with stats. I think you'll find we finished the season with a record goal difference so I highly doubt the data supports any of that. If you also look at the data from this season, we have dominated games, had a massively higher XG than our opposition but struggled to score. So while overall performance is a concern I agree with, chance conversion is a much bigger concern as the data suggests we should have won more games and would have done had we replaced our main attacking players.

https://www.67hailhail.com/news/cel...ey-eclipsed-the-lisbon-lions-and-invincibles/

There's a post regarding our record goal difference backing up what I said about last season. That completely contradicts what you're saying about being * since November.

 

If he wins us the league with this * team and our injuries he should be anointed.

 

Mate, you've just said you agree with my points but you've went out of your way to argue against them. You've also just said Rodgers isn't perfect and could do better, my original point, but you've just spent umpteen posts absolving him of any blame and not just over this exchange either. I've maintained all along that if failing to put away chances was our only issue there could be no cause for complaint, but its not.

You've also yet to explain what was hypocritical.

Here's a thing. If the stats, the figures on paper, in black and white, show that there was no issues with the latter part of last season then shouldn't the figures on paper, in black and white, with regards to the money spent on and wages paid to our squad and manager show we should be better on a more regular basis? Given the huge disparity between our figures and the majority of our opponents figures?

 

You started this discussion, by indirectly calling myself and a couple of other users out on this thread. Because we cited recruitment as the main issue here and pointed out Brendan has been expected to work with his hands tied. You then used the game on Thursday to highlight our squad quality and claimed that with better management we could play like that every week and should have been since the start of the season. I've consistently said this is an unrealistic expectation due to poor squad depth primarily due to recruitment and now worsened by injuries. Which is now going to be a very difficult task going forward.

You're focusing on what you call a downward trajectory on squad and players primarily caused by management style since November. Without any evidence to back it up. By all accounts last season was a success with 2 trophies and a good European run. Had we won the cup final your claims would be labelled as absolutely absurd. You're now also saying this seasons playing style is a continuation of this, again citing poor management as a main cause. Yet you're admitting the transfer window wasn't good enough. You can't have it all ways. They're not just directly linked one is a product of the other. The fact remains that you could take our entire management team out of the equation and that when you behave that way in the transfer windows you will see reduced performance. Had we adequately recruited and replaced players sold and we were having these performances and results my opinion would be entirely different.

Obviously we need to have the biggest and best squad in the country. We have bigger expectations than everyone else. We're better run than everyone else. We're expected to win more trophies domestically and compete at a higher level in Europe than everyone else. Therefore our aspirations involve the highest expense. And as I pointed out, last season was a success that saw our biggest goal difference finish which shows we played to a good standard over the course of the full season. So clearly we were better on a more regular basis than every other team in Scotland. And as I've said previously, that is still the expectation from everyone despite colossal off field failings hampering our ability to do so this season.

 

Every week? Mate you're all over the place.

Try reading stuff properly before you go off on your next rant.
Good day.

 

Standard back tracking response. Surprised it took you as many posts.

 

Aye, im backtracking. Try reading what you write yourself bud, never mind others.
Seriously, go back and take look.

 

Sorry mate but this is just pure apologist logic.

The OP is entirely correct in asserting that that Rodgers has alot to answer for regarding our performances. Even the most ardent Rodgers defenders such as @Mr Shelby have said its becoming increasingly harder to defend him.

Youre pointing to what I assume are these mitigating circumstances; the transfer window, injuries etc. But then discount the crux of the OPs argument that standards have neen dropping since November last year, after he was handed what most called a very successful transfer window.

Others account for this as, if I read it correctly, players taking their foot off the gas? Is it not down to the manager to ensure that that is completely unacceptable?

Youre absolutely correct that after losing so many goal threats that a drop off in performances is understandable. But not to the degree we have been seeing.

Rodgers' now infamous quote about Honda Civics is indicative of his culpability. No Honda Civic would be expected to outstrip a ferrari. But it could surely out pace a Kazak horse and cart.

Theres also the inescapable fact that Rodgers has failed to beat another horse and cart act in the last YEAR, in the form of Sevco. You have to go all the way back to September 24 to find a 90m win against that dross.

Youre claiming that Rodgers is being forced to do his job with his hands tied behind his back, which is a fair conclusion; but the this has only been the case since July this year, and doesnt account for the eye bleeding football we've had to witness since February. Saying that poor recruitment and injuries is a reason not to expect performances like Thursday is a contradiction in itself. Why not? Why is it unrealistic to expect the best possible performance from the available pool of players? The point being is that this is NOT the case. And hasnt been since the turn of LAST year.

Asserting that we could dump the entire management team and would still see reduced performance is also incorrect imo. Especially when we are, en masse, screaming for him to change the midfield, be more pragmatic, stop picking underperforming players, and at least consider altering tactics based on opposition strength. Any manager worth their salt shouldve been burying the likes of those successive jokes of Sevco managers, as well as Kazak donkeys.

Im not actually disagreeing with you entirely. The board * him, the injuries are piling up, and squad depth is poor. But its a managers job to mitigate these things, adapt and overcome. Rodgers is incapable of doing that, evidenced by every club hes been at since he joined Liverpool.

Simply put, the excuses youre attributing to our current lethargy are all valid. But they only tell one side of the story. Rodgers has alot to answer for, and hiding behind a * transfer window didn't save him at Liverpool. Didnt save him at Leicester. And shouldn't save him here.

He needs to get his * together. Hopefully, we saw the beginning of that on Thursday.

 

Why?