Cultural appropriation.

A more nuanced discussion rather than 'You dont get it'?

 

Have you seen the remake? It's a drama and all the characters are updated and different. Hilary is a social media influencer. Geoffrey is a badass that can make folk disappear. It's mental

 

That's news to me mate. Geoffrey was always my favourite and Carlton aswell, i'll have to have a look.

 

No because that's not what it means. You listening and buying a type of music is not exploiting or mocking. Again this is the fault of the diluted use of the words causing the issue. Embracing a culture and celebrating it isn't cultural appropriation, if someone said that is then they don't understand what it means. If you blacked up, rapped in a comedic way mocking the culture and looked to gain fame or profit, Then that would definitely be.

In the article provided earlier it mentions a fashion house copying designs from an ethnic grouping in Laos for their clothing. They simply digitally printed the paterns on the clothes, patterns that were usually made in a special hand made process. They didn't reference what the designs meant, celebrate what they did, involve anybody from the ethnic group etc. That was taking advantage of another culture to monetise it and project it as your own. Had they celebrated the heritage of the design and/or involved the people then it would be cultural appreciation. I'll compare that to Adidas St Patrick's Day clothing, which loosely celebrates a culture, a grouping and is essentially a design for them. It's still monetised but celebrates somewhat.

The article unfortunately does still have someone moaning about corn rows and braids, if you take that section out it's fairly solid and explains the difference between appreciation and appropriation.

 

It's just called Bel Air I'm sure.

 

I see what you mean and that the intentions of the person do matter. I still think there is room to assume that people are getting worked up over a passed down ideology though and that the fundamental idea that someone cannot celebrate a culture or portray it due to race, does exist and it's quite strongly discussed in media, I think in a divisive way which pits people against each other.
If we subscribe to the idea that you can take ownership of a culture and to feel as though its your duty to uphold that culture for you and those who look like you, then aren't we subscribing to the idea of division to begin with and are opening up a can of worms based on differences which nobody is in control of.
In other words, a complete fabrication of reality which only fuels the idea of non harmony and conflict?

 

I think some valid points, and I think there has come a point where some of the people trying to referee it have become divisive. I suppose it comes down to the idea, if you are well intentioned make it clear and if someone comments on it or wants to have a discussion, listen, discuss or even explain yourself. You may learn something about the history of the culture you enjoy. Some people may be protective of their culture because they may have been mocked or derided for it in their lives and due to this become protective. And if they want to discuss why they may feel it is insensitive or issues in the past they have had, listen and again explain your good intentions.

I would never have a go at the non-Scottish person at a wedding wearing a kilt (there's always one!). I'd see it as they like the kilt and the style and patterns of tartan. I wouldn't sit and ask them for a history lesson on the tartan they are wearing.

I saw a BBC video where someone basically said it was white thing and white people thinking other races want their approval, which I think is wrong, anybody could appropriate someone's culture regarding of race. She obviously had issues regarding racism in the past that she struggled with. I also don't think it's about giving validation.

 

Yes, I should always try to empathise with where people are coming from. I think the clash of ideas in society and possibly where we lack the empathy may be due to the reason that some of us really don't like the idea of being an oppressor and oppressing others without realising it. That is where both sides are ignoring that persons lived experience in favour of their own. Its insulting on both ends if we forget the individuality of people and what moulded them into what they are and what they believe

 

All my comments were directly in reponse to the examples raised in the bbc article you posted. Ive since listed a couple of more ludicrous examples. What examples are you pointing to that you feel strongly about? I appreciate the more extreme and sillier examples are the ones that make the tabloids but you havent explained what we should be worried about or objecting to?

Im even more convinced from reading the article you shared that it is mostly virtue signalling americans than before for the reasons I set out.

 

See the actual people/groups/cultures that are affected by cultural appropriation, do they complain about it?

Seems to me that it's mostly white folk getting offended on their behalf. Which ironically causes them more problems in the long run

 

Parks and Rec poke fun at it constantly with an actual native American leading the jokes.

I think some people are far too oversensitive with this issue.

 

My main gripe is the level of importance it demands from predominantly American voices that dont even own the cultures that they speak on behalf of.

A fashion designer in Laos using traditional designs being ripped off by fashion houses in New York or London is extremely poor form. If you are taking things from a source then the right thing to do is credit the source and use your platform to life up those who originated the idea. Same is true in literature, in art, in music (Im looking at you Led Zeppelin!)

It is the idea that there are now self proclaimed gatekeepers of culture that I object to. And they can state as a fact that it is more important to protect 14th century african hair styles (to use an example from the earlier article) than say kilts, tartan, jeans or the cello. As I said earlier it is primarily a grift to find offence at something that has no material impact on the lives of the loudest voices and to profit from it.

 

My guess is that as a minority, they don't want their culture to erode and they may feel like protecting it. If you feel your culture has been attacked, or you have personally been attacked, which many have over the years, you may become protective. I understand that, and that's part of the discussion I suppose.

I also agree it is problematic when certain cultures deserve more protection than others. I could walk down the street with a Hawaiian shirt on and wouldn't get questioned on culture.

 

I get it, but its such a narrow view of culture and its pretty arrogant to assume that any individual speaks on behalf of a culture. Who is any individual to declare that culture A shouldnt adopt a trait from culture B, especially when culture B stretches over hundreds of years, multiple continents, and millions of people. It is profoundly arrogant.

To me it is far more to do with america and Britain's grievance culture than it is to do with people genuinely feeling culturally downtrodden. Only from anecdotal experience Ive found every culture ive ever visited to be very open in sharing their culture with a general pride and also a sense of fun, good will and humour. I absolutely get why black america feels defensive of their cultural stuff given their own history with white america. Its the exporting of their grievances to other countries and the assumption we need to adhere to it that I object to.

 

I'm happy to have a more detailed discussion when it's done in good faith, if not I'd simply rather not waste my time.

 

Yeah, there are a lot of examples available online and I'll get back to you with them as I need to drive home shortly.

 

From what I've read, absolutely.

 

That's quite sad then.

I don't get the least bit offended when someone prances about in a kilt going "och aye the noo"

I bet the ratio of people who would get offended by the above would be almost identical to other cultures. Making not so much a difference of human beings but just a shared worldview that differs not only to someone on the other side of the world, but possibly their neighbour too?

 

Unfortunately it's those who shout the loudest sort of thing. Those who see things as acceptance don't kick up a fuss and nor do they go to the media to share their acceptance and their acceptable behaviour is often ignored.

Yeah I think it is a lot to do with grievance culture. I do think the modern usage is an ugly American thing that has creeped up on us. Living in London I've never not been around minorities and I think metropolitan cities like London, Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow all have huge amounts of the local culture from immigrants and made it part of their own in a good way, whether it be food, music or fashion.