How would you have set us up yesterday?

1-2-7 or 2-4-4 or 3-2-5 or maybe 3-5-2

 

Route 1 football . Ball over the top . Bypass midfield as our was and is *. Simples.and im not a so called elite manager.HH

 

Subbed myself onto the right wing. Easy improvement

 

Everyone on the goal line. And im serious lol HH

 

Difficult one, with so many of our normally reliable performers off form. Moving the ball forward quicker would be the obvious change, as we were struggling with their press.

 

There was nothing wrong with the tactics. McCowan in the McGregor role was a disaster. Engels played it 2nd half and we were far better. Losing McGregor was a big blow but also being without Bernardo added to the problem. I genuinely think if we had started with Engels in the McGregor role we would have been better served.

 

I appreciate this is written from a complete layman perspective...but...

I don't understand the tactics we employ in inviting them to press man for man against our back line. Because even if we do beat the press, we are then far too slow to actually benefit from it.

I don't think our players are good enough at the back to pass their way out of a well drilled press a high enough percent to justify it. And even if we started the game with the idea of passing round rangers' front three, it clearly wasn't working. And on the times we did it, I couldn't immediately see any real benefit to it because we're too slow on the ball to then spring into attack without their front three getting back into a defensive formation.

I reckon at least half of those 9 goals rangers have scored against us in the last 3 games, and many more chances, have come from defensive errors in us trying to pass out from the back. It's a high risk strategy that offers relatively little benefit that I can see and we need to have a plan B for when plan A fails time and time again.

 

I wouldn't even call what they do a press as they aren't actively trying to win the ball off us or really press us. It's more like a "high" block or a man marking job. It's like a frontline of defence.

It's done to block us from having easy options to get into their half and to really just trap us with the ball at the back, knowing our players will get panicky if they are standing about on the ball with no where to go with it. Even worse at Celtic Park where the fans start going nuts at the ball not being put forward even if theres no real options and we'll probably give the ball away or need to punt it long.

I agree also that theres no actual benefit to us trying to play through them either.

Because they effectively block us with only 4 players doing the job. It means even if we are successful in cutting through their "press" we get into their half and they still outnumber us, it's not like once we get past them we are in, once we get past we need to do the same again.Unless we move really quick also, then 10 seconds later, their players all get back and then they gradually work us back the way to where we again have the ball 10 yards outside our box and need to do it again.

We'd likely be more successful, less easily rattled and panicked at the back and get in their half more if we pushed our defence up to the half way line and punted it long from the keeper towards their defence then tried to get on the ball from there.

Either that or we need to drop an extra midfielder back deep, so we have 6 outfield players in our defensive 3rd to play out with, meaning they'd need a 5th player to come into our half to do the same marking job which would at least unsettle their defence a little. It would also give us more bodies and cover if we did give the ball away as well as making it slightly easier to pass out way out by having the extra guy.

If it resulted instead to the huns changing from the marking job into pressing a bit more and still only using mainly 4 guys then we'd probably cut through them willie nilly.

But we'll never know as we don't do anything to see how they'd react.

 

Before the game? Exactly as we did. By 15 minutes in though? A double pivot, with an attacking midfielder. 4231

 

As long as we're consistently failing to pick up 2nd balls, match their physicality and work-rate and losing-out in challenges that are 80-20 in our favour never mind 50-50 then it won't matter much what the formation is.

 

It's so simple that would be effective but we fail to change which cannot be explained other than the manager thinks we're too good and will get the better of them anyway even though you can tell our players are kind of stunted and under pressure.

Be interesting what we do at the Ibrox game.

I'd start like this

Schmeichel
Johnston CCV Trusty Schlupp
Bernardo McGregor
Jota Engels Maeda
Idah
​

With the tactics being do what we normally do, but with Bernardo and McGregor deep spread apart and also i'd have Engels and Idah close together, if we are pressed and under pressure leather it to Engels and Idah. Maybe occasionally go lopsided like Engels, Idah and Maeda all down the left to aim long balls with the thinking of getting it down and then sending Maeda down the line.

Leaving Jota free and in space where he might be left one on one for the odd ball if those 3 are always down the left.

Let them worry about what we're doing. Plus make them change what they've recently been doing which they can't do if we have 6 guys back.

 

They did actually try to press us with 4-5 men at once a few times yesterday but each time we failed to move the ball quickly or accurately enough to escape the press and move out into the space. You make some good points though.

 

There’s that as well. But for 3 games now, they have set up and covered our usual passing lanes, and we are well drilled at how we build play. They’re pressing the right players, not overextending that press. Stopping the full backs moving up the pitch, and covering the passing channels we usually do.

And that requires us to change shape, and change the angles of our build up play. We tweak it, then they need to adapt. They are outfighting us, and got our system clocked.

Club Brugge did it, and they are doing exactly as they done.

 

Yeah our passing can be very predictable at times, anyone who watches us regularly should be able to predict a lot of it. We also have a reluctance to clear our lines and often get caught trying to play out of situations when it's just not possible.

 

The 2nd ball thing also comes from how we play against them.

Generally when they kick it long it's their keeper who does it and he does it after our front 3 and even McCowan and Hatate have all been sucked forward. Then it's a part of their tactics that when they kick it long their midfield etc follow it in to the half way line they are alert and been waiting to do this.

Most of the time also CCV and Trusty will header it forward, which they don't do against any other team, they'd take the ball down or flick it backwards etc but against the huns because our defence are stuck on the ball so often with you said they block the passing lanes, our defence just want to head the ball away to get rid of it but they are set up to come in picking these balls up and even Hatate/McCowan etc are tired from having just ran 20-30 yards closing down their defence for no real reason as the huns having possesion at the back is not a threat to us or something we should be bothering about.

It's mad currently how much extra we do that literally is pointless and how little they need to do to have it easy.

It isn't that they are more aggressive or want it more or are fitter or quicker, it's that they know whats going to happen and they are set up for it while we play into their hands and are seemingly unaware at how easy it is for them to exploit it.

 

We definitely need to re-evaluate how we set up against them, I think it's clear they know how to play against us now.

We had that 3-0 victory earlier in the season, and that was great, but I think it's looking more and more likely that was a one-off. Almost every game outside of that has been a lot closer than people were probably expecting.

Last season, The 1-0 win away to Ibrox was a good result and the performance in that game didn't matter to me, but it was still a close game. We then had 2 home games where we won, but they went down to 10 men in both and we made it a lot nervier/closer than it should have been. The 3-3 game at Ibrox we threw away a 2 goal lead, scored late on then threw away the lead again. We then had a cup final which was 50/50. Again, when it comes to cup games against them, it's more just about winning, but still.

So far this season, outside the 3-0, they've been the better side. The 3-3 cup final I'd say they edged it, and they should have had a penalty in Extra Time. We done the business and won, but warning signs were there. The 3-0 at Ibrox was as poor a performance I've seen from us, we got lucky they bottled it against Hibs the next game. Yesterday's game was another where I'd say they were the better side, and that was after they had a mid-week game that went to penalties.

In all honesty, we have a lot to thank St Mirren for this season, they've took 6 points off the huns and I'd be a lot more nervous going into the final few games only 7 clear. We can't rely on them dropping anywhere near as many points against the dross next season.

At Ibrox, I'd like to see us play a bit more defensively, going gung ho again will just result in them pressing us, winning the ball and eventually scoring from a stupid mistake or us panicking.

Rodgers did learn from the Dortmund pumping, so here's hoping he's learned from yesterdays game. Another game where they're the better side, even if it's at Ibrox, will create a lot of pressure which is remarkable considering we're on course for a treble.

 

It’s a strategy that requires players to be confident on the ball and brave, players need to show for the ball and play with conviction.

Preseason all be it we had Matt O’Riley who had a better range of passing than our current options, we done that to all be it in a friendly City and Chelsea teams. You draw them in and then release your quick forward line. If you refuse the forward pass though it’s pointless taking the risk.

Quite often the thing that irked me yesterday was Engels would get in position for Johnston to play the lay off inside that triggers us going from being camped in to counter and use their press against them. We did this well against Leipzig as well and Aberdeen as a lesser opponent.

Rangers have come up with a tactical set up that sees them try stop us building out, we need to try something to change that, so when they set up as they do we exploit space left elsewhere, whether that’s in behind or out wide by pushing up the full backs and dropping the midfield back in.

As mentioned on one of these threads,

1. You have one of the midfield 3 drop between the two centre backs to make a 3.
2. Centre backs split to make sure if they want to mark the one dropping in and both centre backs they need 3.
3. Position the two other centre midfielders as a double pivot inside left and right. So they now need 5 to cover all options for Schmeichel and they are all relatively straight forward passes.
4. Full backs push up to half way line but hold their width so likely on their wing backs but our side of them.
5. Front 3 position themselves spread wide across the pitch from roughly half space on one side to half space on the other with the centre forward ready to go in behind. The wingers can then either come in making it a narrow 3 or go wide very quickly from where they are.

They can still opt to only mark certain players in our half but it becomes difficult to cover all the options, without leaving their back 3 v 3 with our front 3. They don’t want to leave space behind but if they drop deep then the gap from their midfield to their defence becomes massive, so Jota for example who is good on the ball, could opt to drop in and pick it up with a lot of space to run at their defence. Or if Hatate breaks free of his marker he has acres to drive into.

Essentially if any team deploys man to man marking you want to drag those players around so your better players can get a chance to beat their man. If we come out left Schlupp can drop in and help and pulls Sterling with him so whoever is on the ball would have that direct long ball to the front 3, or Schlup is free to pick the ball up in an inverted position beyond their press. Same on the other side with Johnston. Schmeichel could even hit Johnston for a knock down as he was up against Yilmaz.

Another, thing but it’s on defending set pieces we really should be leaving two of our front 3 right up on half way. It stops them sending At least 3 players forward to cover the counter.

Essentially if any team deploys man to man marking you want to drag those players around so your better players can get a chance to beat their man.

 

More heart. More passion. More fight. We better grow some balls before we play them next and hit them hard.

 

Mentioned this before but going back to 1st derby of the season they started very similar to yesterday, without scoring obviously. Rodgers changed the shape after 10 mins and pulled Bernardo deeper and sat him in beside McGregor and we went on to dominate the game.

Given how well it worked, It * baffles me that we haven't started that way or at least changed shape to it in any of the last 3 derby games when they have clearly got better of us.

Think Rodgers arrogance can he his downfall at times, it's as if he thinks his plan A is so good that he shouldn't need to change it.


Definitely not a Greg Taylor fan but probably should of started him yesterday, with McGregor being out he could have been worthwhile inverting and would also have let us play Schlupp in midfield. We need to accept that they are constantly overpowering us in there and combat it

 

think we were out of options with the injuries ,the only change i would have made was playing idah from the start only because maeda would have caused more problems from lw .as it played out theres no way i would have taken jota off