Is the Youth Academy a failure?

Celtic used to be famous for being able to field an entire team of youth playesr that were worthy of the first team jearsey but nowadays we're nowhere near being able to even field even half a team.

Since 2000, as far as I can tell we have fielded 62 youth prospects with imo only 6 making it as successful first team regulars, those being Sean Maloney, Stephen McManus, Aiden McGeady, James Forrest, Callum McGregor and Kieran Tierney.

Some might argue for Ralston and he's had a great season but can he sustain it like the 6 above? that is what next season will tell us. Right now he's kind of like David Marshall, Stephen Crainey, Tony Watt or Darren O'Dea, useful squad players that did well for a short period of time but ultimately still failed.
Stephen Welsh is also possible but we'll need to wait and see.

3 of the 62 were lost to us so whether they would be successful or not we'll never know, those being Liam Miller (Man U), John Kennedy (Injury) and now Ben Doak (Liverpool)

We have fielded 5 who are still with us in Scott Robertson, Adam Montgomery, Dane Murray, Owen Moffat and Joey Dawson so do we think Ange turn these players or others in the B team into first team regulars.
Is it possible to have another quality street gang one day or are w ejust gonna have to hope for that 1 gem every 4 years like we have been for over 22 years?

the list of 46 failures who made at least 1 first team appearance for anyone interested

Spoiler

Mark Burchill
Stephen Crainey
Simon Lynch
Barry John Corr
Colin Healy
Mark Fotheringham
Jamie Smith
Ross Wallace
David Marshall
Craig Beattie
Paul Lawson
Michael McGlinchey
Darren O'Dea
Paul Caddis
Cillian Sheridan
Jim O'Brien
Ryan Conroy
Paul McGowan
Niall McGinn
Paul Slane
Graham Carey
Richie Towell
Lewis Toshney
Filip Twardzik
Dylan McGeouch
Marcus Fraser
Paul George
John Herron
Tony Watt
Jackson Irvine
Bahrudin Atajic
Jow Chalmers
Eoghan O'Connell
Darnell Fisher
Liam Henderson
Joe Thomson
Aiden Nesbitt
Jack Aitchinson
Jamie McCart
Calvin Miller
Ewan Henderson
Mikey Johnston
Cameron Harper
Armstrong Oko-Flex
Conor Hazard
Karamoko Dembele

 

Football is a completely different game, teams now buy to bolster their squad rather than wait and produce players. If we decided to sit for a few years and try and breed a squad the Hun would win everything and fans would moan. The same would happen if they tried it and we just won everything.

I think a big problem is retaining is difficult, we are losing lots of prospects who can offer these 16 to 18 year old 10 to 15k. We can't match that, that's what a large amount of our first team are on.

 

It is an area that we should be far better with, look at Ajax or Salzburg for how an academy system can really produce results consistently.

I think Scotland as a whole is not conclusive to youth development with the lack of a youth League and the fact the b team only just got into a league at all.

As others have pointed out we are also poached from by clubs with more money now before they even have a chance to come Into the team, look at the ones going to Bayern or Doak to Liverpool, I'm surprised we've managed to keep Dembele as long after his showing when he was about 13.

We've also had some misses with players we release, Robertson and hickey as good examples of that, but that will happen at every club.

We do need a bit of a revamp I think, we need to have those pathways, rarely this season have we had a single youth on the bench and that was only really earlier when we had a depleted squad. I would hope were having the conversations and showing those routes, it would be good to see some 18/19 year olds get more of a chance that have come through

 

The Academy as we know it hasn't been around very long and I'd say from Strachan's tenure onwards was when we as a club began to focus our model more on player development. The market has forced our hand in that regards too. As much as I'd love to see a homegrown first XI, it just isn't going to happen. However I'd say we do ok with regards to developing players considering the need to win trophies every season. I don't think it's right to say anyone who doesn't become a first team regular over many seasons is a failure, as we need squad players too. Not every player will come through and be great but we need guys who can come in and do a job too, even if just for a season.

Along with homegrown players, we should also continue to look for players like Ajer who are young and talented in other leagues, that we can develop.

As mentioned already, our best talents in recent times have been lured away from us and it'll likely continue to happen. A clear pathway to the first team needs to be communicated to players, but we also need a manager willing to give them a chance if they've earned it on the training pitch.

 

10 - 15 thousand a week when your that age??? Thats an awful lot of cocaine and hookers. Im surprised any of them make it

 

I feel like a broken record, but until we start giving coaching positions at the academy to people with proven track records at academies with a similar, or higher, profile to our own we are going to struggle to produce top young players. Giving jobs there to ex players, with little to no experience of coaching at an academy of our size, is not the way to improve.

 

6 out of 63 doesn't sound all that bad to be honest. That suggests a 10% success rate.
However, that is being far too kind in using the available information.

Reality is, we have probably went through a lot lot lot more youth players than just the ones who have made an appearance at a first team level.

There is a few things we, as a club, need to consider and improve upon, if we are to get the best out of these players and retain them.

As said, 6 out of the names mentioned in the OP have all proven their is talent there.
Robertson, Miller, Kennedy, Doak, Morrison, and many more could be argued to have been lost for various reasons, but are also surely deemed a success of the academy? At least to acknowledge that the talent IS there.

We aren't going to be bringing through a golden generation every season with 4 or 5 new youth talent breaking in to the first team squad, that would be madness to suggest that. But at a current rate of around 1 in every 4 years breaking in to our squad and making an impact at our club, that is pathetic for a club that tries to pretend we are a great youth academy and place to develop talent.
How do we sell ourselves to young talent, when we can't even retain the ones we have.

As @Lupis says, we need to stop giving these jobs to the ex players, O'Dea, McManus, Lennon, etc and start actually bringing in talented coaches who have proven they know what the * they are doing at that level. Staff that actually want to work at that level and not just use it as a first step in to * coaching or management.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but let it sink in, Lennon was in charge of our reserves at one point and as soon as he got a sniff at management he said this:


I don't mean that as a complete bash on the guy (although really, Lennon in charge of developing players, yeah right), but it just shows that some of the ex players are only using it for a quick step, not to actually want to develop talent.
There are folk out there who legit want to work and develop talent at that age group. We need to find some of the best talent out there for that job.

 

It’s an area where work needs to be done, it is harder these days given the enhanced level of poaching from other leagues as others have mentioned but we don’t seem to manage transitions from the reserves to the first team well enough.

It sounds like even recent (ish) success have been lucky rather than planned, both Tierney and McGregor were on the verge of being let go and are the best two players we have produced for some time.

It will be interesting to see how we manage the likes of Vata, Murray etc from the current crop. I think Lawal should be making the step up next season to be a back up CB.

 

For a youth set up to work you need a good level of a youth league, the only way that will happen is if the SFA/SPFL sees sense and allows our B teams to compete upto the Championship, same set up as Spain, Netherlands etc.

Loans rarely work for young players as a stepping stone to the first team. We also need to invest more into our scouting networks for young players as well as facilities & coaches etc.

 

I would NOT call those 46 people you listed, as Failures, as they have all succeeded and become Professional Football Players.

The 6 players you listed are Special players.

I would look at the coaches and the whether we can fund more inter-academy games throughout the UK and Europe to help the young players develop and progress.

 

Agree with this. We do need a higher calibre of Coach working in the academy. However there is still a place for talented ex-players to cut their teeth as coaches at our club. E.g Scott Brown has a Lot to offer as a coach and we should be finding a role for him to pass on his knowledge and passion for the game. Likewise Maloney. John Collins is another ex player I think has potential as a coach.

 

Does Shay Given count?

 

For the academy to be successful it would need to provide a good number of Celtic quality players, rather than a constant output of Hibs/Motherwell level players.

For that to happen we would need to have a proper club philosophy, with youth players getting trained and educated in our philosophy from a young age and playing the same system as our first team through all the age levels.

We have a great chance to implement that just now. We should have all our youth teams studying Ange's system and playing it week in week out, so that when a player looks ready to make the step up they'll know exactly what is expected of them.

The problem is not that we are not seeing a good enough level of player come through the academy. We're just not giving them the right education and opportunities.

 

I meant failed for us, not that they failed in their careers

 

There's no doubt that it's not been anywhere near productive enough. When was the last time we produced a good striker or centre back?

 

striker - Charlie Nicholas?
Defender - Stephen McManus, before him no idea.

 

Not a failure. I mean- Forrest, McGregor, Ralston, Tierney... all players that have played or are playing big roles in our team. But we could do more.

 

Lennoxtown being built on the cheap and Barrowfield still being used is a major problem.

The club really needs to invest in its playing infrastructure across the board. Not having a full sized indoor pitch is mortifying, given the size of the club.

 

I don't understand how people can say our Youth Academy is a failure when teams like Bayern Munich are poaching our players, surely the complete opposite! Its a testament to how good it is that these massive teams are hovering around...

& A 15/16/17 YO getting offered a few grand a week more than we can afford at that age! Back to school the next day, Ive just signed for fukin Bayern Munich

 

The whole point of an academy is to develop players and provide them with a pathway to the first team. Our inability to hold on to these players proves something isn't working. There's a disconnect between the academy and the first team.

And boys leaving at 15 years old doesn't mean anything. They'll never get a kick of a ball for Bayern's first team, let's be real. Teams like Bayern, with money to throw around, will snap up hundreds of young players every year and nearly every single one will probably be released within a year or two when the club realises they won't make it. Or sold for a slight profit.