We still haven't replaced JVOH

Just from todays game i saw plenty of good crosses swung in by Mulgrew which we couldn't
even compete for. Just thought having a target man like JVOH would be a great option upfront for us in Europe and in the league.

And for those people who are suggesting that our way of playing is fun, beautiful and is the "Celtic Way". Well it's not going to work all the time, there will be plenty of games throughout the season that we will struggle in one way or another by playing our current style and in those games player like JVOH could get us that ugly goal which will win us mathches.

I'm not asking for a tall timber who is only good for heading the ball but a quality player who is strong in the air and give us something different upfront, while also being capable of fitting into our current system.

 

A lot of people seem to forget, a big target man that is also good on the deck wont come cheap. I'm happy that we didn't sign a target man in all honesty. A long ball so it can be flicked on, no thanks. Andy Carroll is a prime example i think. Ask him to go and win headers and throw himself about, no problem. But when the ball is on the deck and played into his feet the move breaks down a lot of the time. As i have said on a previous thread, if the cross is good enough then you dont have to be a big target man to put it in the back of the net. Crosses dont always have to be flighted in either. I used to love Andy Hinkel putting a cross in. Fired it in low, its a nightmare for defenders.

 

Much man love for this post. * brilliant.

 

We have decent height in our team as it is for set pieces,corners and if we get support up quickly from midfield we have Ambrose,wanyama,samaras and Ledley to get on the end of things.Keep the ball on the ground where possible but move it round quickly with accurate passing will result in many more goals than lumping it into the middle for a target man.

 

The thing is, our team is not really set up with the need for a target man. We play a completely different brand of football to that which WGS employed - and generally for the better, IMO. WGS's teams were largely dependent upon too few players for goal production compared to NL's team, where goals can come from anywhere on the park.

Case in point - Compare how few goals came from CM during WGS/TM years, with how many our CM's chip in with as a whole since NL took over.

This can't really be attributed to the players at the disposal of WGS either. For example, Barry Robson & Paul Hartley were banging them in for DUTD & Hearts respectfully prior to joining the Hoops. Yet, because of the way WGS deployed the team and demanded discipline in these roles, it reduced these player's effectiveness as a potential goal threat.

 

This is a valid point:

GS - midfield in general:

2008 - 35 goals from midfield (Hartley / Brown / Maloney / Crosas / Naka / Robson / Mizuno

2007 - 29 (much the same players as above for majority of goals)

2006 - 35 (as above, but Jarosik / Gravesen also)


Neil Lennon - midfield in general over one main season:

2012 - 43 goals (and that was without Commons for the most part of the season.)

 

Can't remember Hartson, Joos, or Petrov (bar his first season when out of position) ever being "whipping bhoys".

 

And if you limit it further to just CM's, so not including the liked of Naka, Maloney, McGeady, Forrest, Samaras etc then the comparision is even more stark. It has roughly doubled since Lenny took over.

2011/12 - 26 (Ledley 9, Ki 7, Brown 6, Wanyama 4)
2010/11 - 19 (Ledley 6, Ki 7, Brown 4, Kayal 2)
2009/10 - 3 (Brown 1, N'Guermo 0, Robson 2, Crosas 0)
2008/09 - 13 (Brown 7, Hartley 3, Robson 2, Crosas 1)
2007/08 - 12 (Brown 3, Donati 4, Hartley 1, Robson 4)
2006/07 - 10 (Lennon 0, Gravesen 6, Jarosik 4, Hartley 0)

Just emphasizes the point further about how the team is set up very different & why a JVOH type figure is less needed with Lennon's team than with WGS.

 

To be honest it seems very few teams in the modern game has big target men. South of the border i can think of drogba (recently left), crouch and andy carrol. Their is much more, worth talking about anyway. Point being football seems to be moving in a direction where you very much so keep it on the deck, even when in the final third. I like the idea of a big bad jon type but the truth is very few teams have a playerin that mould now. They are few n far between. And to get one it would mean paying through the nose. Lenny has something special in the making here. If he doesnt feel a big man up front is needed then neithier do i

 

Gorgios Samaras


Nuff said.

 

Sammy is a natural winger. He's a good player but nothing like JVOH imo. And how often do you see Sammy rattling the net with a powerful header when the ball is crossed in?

 

I think we should wait and see what kind of players Miku and Lassad turn out to be before we go signing any more strikers. I thought Miku held the ball up well against Benfica although I dont know much of his aerial ability.

 

people can say what they want about WGS team and lennon's team about how lennon's side scores more goals in the middle of the park ect and we don't need a JVOH type of player, but it showed under WGS we done 3 in a row and the last 16 of the champions league twice with that sort of player, i really do think people forget that

 

That's not a target man though, that's someone who can score a header.

Big Jan wasn't the best goalscorer really, had a knack at popping up in huge ganes though.

 

This. If we haven't replaced JVoH it's because we haven't found someone who is as clutch as he is. He didn't score a whole lot of goals but they were usually important. It's less about how he does it and more about the fact that he was there when we needed him.

 

I disagree, Lassad is decent in the air and sammy did nearly won every ball in the air this season, you could see that especially against benfica when we didn`t get to hold on one ball from the air

 

People keep on going on about a targetman, I don't get it. The best targetman we've had sense Sutton and Hartson is Samaras. He's big, he's fast, he's strong, he's good in the air, he can run with the ball at his feet.

He's just not a good finisher, that's the only aspect about him. So we give him that job out on the wing and it works brilliantly. I think when people start going on about needing a target man, what they are actually meaning is we need someone in the box who can score with a header.

You don't need to be a target man to get that, however our game and the game in general is moving away from the fling the ball into the box and hope the big man can get onto it.

I think we are gradually learning how to cross to our players, based on what Sammy usually does. Put the ball in at waist height inbetween the defence and the keeper, Gary Hooper is one of the best players to get on the end of that.

 

I dont see the obsession with needing a target man. Even if we do play with two small striker, sammy will be far enough up the pitch to win headers if necessary.