4-4-2 v's 4-3-3

haha i like the discussion here. But theres a thing the CM's and AM have in common: The M in the position name stands for.... Midfield! So if i get it right, there are 3 midfielders!

Its not very, very different. Theres just a lot of variation

 

well when i say right players, i say players that are versitile, and stick to doing the role that their position has ie.. if your playing DM, you dont push up the field on a solo run trying to score!

 

See tbh .. they are all midfielders, just some are attack minded, some are defense minded, some are distributers ( or playmakers/box to box)

examples:
Kayal - Defensive midfielder
Commons - Attacking midfielder
Forrest - Attacking midfielder
Ledley - playmaker
Ki - playmaker

i would like to see ledley and ki playing in the same team, as they could be our own version of iniesta/xavi/alonso

 

So in any 3 man midfield the 3 cm's have the exact same role? Of course not, you can play a three man midfield with DM's and AM's.

What about a 4231 with a deep-lying playmaker at the base of your midfield 3?

 

Our very strong central midfield area made me think we should play with 3 CMs:

Kayal -- Ki Sung -- Ledley

Then the emergance of Commons as a goal scoring attacking midfielder + another (probably a new signing) such as Forrest or perhaps Brown at a push, with a mobile goal scoring lone striker - who would probably need to be bought.

Forrest/Brown----------------Commons
-------------------Boothroyd?

We only need a couple of players to bring this system off & I think it would win us the SPL & do us a turn in Europa League.

------------------GK
Wilson--Wilson--Mulgrew--Emilio
--------Kayal--Ki Sung--Ledley
Brown?------------------------Commons
---------------Boothroyd

 

The 442 employed by the Lisbon Lions of 67, or the Man UTD side of 68 is the best formation.

It offers the most versatility, balance and attacking threat. The Barca 4123 fails if the tiki-taki passing system fails, they have no plan B.

The 442 gives you that something extra, that ability to just hoof the ball up or drill it into the box and get a lucky bounce. You can cross from the byline, from deep or cut inside and thread a throughball, and with two forwards the chances are greater that one of them will get a touch. Barcelona haven't score from a cross or a corner all season, their only option is the cut-inside throughball.

Aswell as that, the 442 can easily become a 4231 with one of the strikers dropping deep, just as when Dalglish first came into the team and took up the RWF role whilst Johnstone took up the SS role. Or it can become a defensive 451, a 433 and even the Barca style 4123.

It's a formation which could break down Inter's catenaccio 5221 aswell as recently Walter Smiths 5221, possession can be maintained just as easily as with Barca's 4123 but on top of that you can just play a direct, no nonsense down the wing whip it in style of play if need be.

The only reason Barca won the other night is because United's midfield just did not have the stamina to keep up. They had Barca by the balls in the first 10 minutes, they closed down their back line, forcing them to play the long ball which they cannot do, and then controlled the midfield, firing in lofted througballs to Rooney and Hernandez making runs off the shoulder of the defenders.

United lost not because of the 442 Ferguson has been using his whole career, the 442 system he learned form Jock Stein himself. Ferguson lost because his midfield was total *. Carrick and Valenica in particular just aren't up to the standard required to compete against Xavi and co. Park Ji played brilliantly, and if Fergie had another two Park-Jis in his time that night they would have won it. What the Jock Stein 442 needs is a Roy Keane, a Nobby Stiles, Bobby Murdoch or in the case of our current squad, a Biram Kayal, even a Scott Brown. A player that can shut down an oppositions midfield play, that can snuff out the counter-attacks and can keep the possession game going with neat, simple passes.

The Anchor Man along with the Playmaker are the key to the Jock Stein 442, without them your *.

Keane - Scholes (Utd 98/99)
Murdoch - Auld (Celtic 67/68)
Stiles - Crerand (Utd (67-68)
McGovern - Bowyer (Brain Clough's Forest)
Makelele - Zidane (Galacticos)
Gilberto - Vieira (the Invincibles)

Ever wondered why Arsene Wenger has won * all recently? 4123 is the answer. He abandoned his literally unbeatable 442 in order to imitate Barca's system.

The Unbeatable Team

--------------------------LEHMANN------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------CAMPBELL------TOURE-------------------
-----LAUREN---------------------------------------COLE---
-------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------VEIRA(c)------GILBERTO------------------
--------LJUNBERG------------------------------PIRES-----
-------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------BERGKAMP----------------------------
----------------------------------HENRY--------------

Brazil 94
------------------------------- TAFFAREL----------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------MÁRCIO SANTOS----ALDAIR---------------------------
----JORGINHO-----------------------------------LEONARDO(BRANCO)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------DUNGA--------MAURO SILVA-------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------RAÍ (MAZINHO)--------------ZINHO-------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------BEBETO-------ROMÁRIO-----------------


Brazil 58
-------------------------------Gilmar----------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------Bellini(c)------Orlando-----------------------
----Djalma Santos-------------------------------Nilton Santos----
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------Zito---------Didi---------------------------
-------------------------------------------------Zagalo------------
-----Garrincha-----------------------------------------------------
-------------------------Vava-------Pele-------------------------- -


Just some examples.

 

Hooper can't play the central forward. We'd need some big lump there. Bring back Vennegoor.

 

Daryl Murphy!:icon_mrgreen:

 

He's not overly tall, actually. And can't head the ball as well as I'd like.

 

Murphy's more a tumour than a lump, should be removed asap.

 

bit harsh on the big man horseshoe ehh lol

 

badddd comparison horseshoe

 

The reason it works for Barca and Spain is simple...

They're Barca and Spain and, Barca particularly, have some of the best players in the world.

Unfortunately we do not!

When we have Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pedro, Villa, Messi, etc, etc then maybe we talk comparisons :icon_mrgreen:

For now, though, off to bed to dream that we have signed all of the above...

ZZZzzzzzz!!!!!



Whoops, wrong dream... :icon_mrgreen:

 

I don't think that we are far off the players to be able to play a similar game to Barcelona. 'The Celtic Way' is held in high regard by our fans likewise to 'The Barca Way'. Of course I am in no way suggesting that the quality is anything like as near to one of the greatest teams in the world, ever.


A 4-3-2-1 could have two major set ups.
Firstly Hooper or Stokes up top playing off the last man looking for the creative passes from the AMs.
Secondly Samaras up top in the tougher games can act as a 'false 9' and drop deeper with the ball dragging the CBs out of shape for the pace and finishing of the AMs to drive forward.


We have some of the best AMs that we have had for a while in Commons, Maloney, Paddy and (although just left) Freddy could have done a good job here albeit only with a stokes or Hooper up top.


Remember that our full backs are very attacking. Kayal, Juarez, ledley, Brown and Ki are more than capable of sitting a little deeper to help the defence and allow the fullbacks to properly hug the touchlines and get to the byline. Ledley and Brown can easily drift left and right to offer another passing option to keep the ball in a patient, probing style.


I think the only thing we are lacking is quick defenders. Puyol is no slouch and Pique definately isn't. This allows Barca to play a very high defensive line which we simply coudn't do. Loovens is averagely quick and I 'think' Wilson is decently quick but don't hold me to that. If true though we could play that higher line. If we were to play possession football then it would require droping Maj and bringing in a quick defender. big call.


This is definately an SPL tactic and I don't see why it shouldn't be so. We expect to win every game and to do so we need the ball. Where is 'The Celtic Way' in lumping it into the big man or relying on crosses being poorly defended (when we don't have a great header of the ball)?


Then look at Blackpool, they were promoted playing nice (or suicidal) football and caused a great stir on a level which was considered far too big for them. I'd enjoy us creating a stir in Europe for all the right reasons, why sit back and lump it forward expecting to lose when we could play 'The Celtic Way' and have the chance of winning against massive teams? Bring back the thunder. Hail hail!