MMA Thread

More talent than an Olympian who has only ever lost to one fighter? Dead on.

Your either at the wind up or in denial because your guy lost.

 

What's being an Olympian got to go with this?

 

I don't know enough about the history of the sport to say who's the top fighters ever.

Just seems double standards to count someone like McGregor as a top 'MMA artist', but not Cormier.

Cormier has submissions, knockouts at the highest levels and Olympic wrestling pedigree - McGregor has a left hand and great striking.

If we are talking 'all rounders', Cormier is arguably more well rounded.

 

What's being an Olympian got to do with talent? Martial arts talent in particular.

Your definitely at it.

 

Right forget about McGregor and think about the other 10 names and others I could say.

Cormier has KO'd one guy in the UFC, the only submissions he's had have been rear naked chokes, something that is handed on a plate to him when he's heavier and a better wrestler.

He left heavyweight after 2 fights because of Cain Velasquez. He could have kept fighting there until he actually became the #1 contender. But he didn't and that's a blemish to me. People fight their friends all the time in the UFC. He knew he wouldn't beat Cain, who is far superior. Probably the greatest heavyweight of all time.

I'm not denying Cormier's wrestling. But he's a good athlete, a great wrestler and he's heavier than all of these guys. He's not THAT good, he's just got the right tools.

 

So if you're an Olympian you're suddenly talented in MMA? You know he wasn't that good at Olympic level? I've not denied his WRESTLING talent. He's nowhere near top 10 all time, that's my argument.

 

His resume at HW was right up there with the rest when he left the division. He was #2 when he moved down with only JSD, who had just faught Cain, above him.

All the time? Name 3 friends and top teammates that have faught each other at the highest level? It doesn't happen.

It shows that your one of the best in the world at that specific skill. How is 4th in the world not good at Olympic level?

 

He beat Mir and Roy Nelson by decision coming from Strikeforce. How does that justify #2 ranking and jumping above Werdum... a better fighter than him. Maybe Werdum was injured at the time but he managed to dodge him and Overeem. Could have fought JDS, probably thought he'd get beat.

I said friends fight all the time. I get that they are training partners as well but it's at that point that to be the best in the world you'd want to test yourself against the best and instead he went down a weight which is fine, but for his size and wrestling ability it's easier for him there. He's able to bully people. You notice he couldn't bully people when he was wrestling people his size in the Olympics. 4th place is 4th place, it doesn't justify MMA talent like you're trying to say it does.

Daniel Cormier is a great wrestler, I'll say it again. But he is not Top 10 all time in the UFC.

 

He also beat Bigfoot and Barnett who at the time were considered pretty good. The strike force gran prix he won had probably as much if not more depth than the ufc hw division at the time.

Overeem was coming off a lose to Travis Brown so that would do nothing for him. Had JDS best Cain Cormier would have stayed at hw to fight him. When Cain won he realised there no point wasting more time at hw so dropped down.

No training partners at the highest level fight each other so critising cormier for not doing it is beyond stupid.

I havnt even had a proper thought about the all time top 10 but you putting Nick Diaz and Cerrone in above dc is hilarious.

 

You don't need to think about it to realise that Cormier isn't top 10. It isn't up for discussion.

The strike force gran prix consisted of guys who'd slumped in the UFC and used it to get themselves back. Cormier even got a bye from the 1st round and dodged Fedor, Overeem again, Werdum again, Arlovski. He beat an old as * Monson who took him the distance.

All you're doing is looking at their records and making an assumption. There's a lot more to it than that.

Not doubting his ability. Not saying he doesn't deserve to be where he is just now. But let's not put him up there with the greatest of all time, because that's embarrassing. Nick Diaz is an incredible fighter, Donald Cerrone is one of the best in the world. I can show you things that back that up. You can show me Cormier using his weight to his advantage to suffocate opponents, a couple of rear naked chokes, some impressive slams against lighter guys.

Btw Diaz and Cerrone are not top 10 all time either, they are two names that came to mind when thinking of people more talented.

 

A top ten list of all time is always going to be subjective. I doubt you would find one person who would have the same top ten that posts in here, we would all have different people in the top ten. DC does get a lot of * from fans because they don't like his style of fighting but I personally would say he would make the top 10 for sure.

 

DC gets nowhere near my top 10

 

Frightening how peoples dislike of DC and his fighting style can make them try and play down what he's achieved.

Did anyone actually say he was the GOAT? Didn't Maria just say if Jones wasn't about that DC could realistically claim/hailed to be one of the GOAT because of his record? It's not even a big claim.

He's absolutely dominated a division with some genuine monsters and only lost by decision to the greatest to ever do it




But aye, he's no Nick Diaz or Cerrone. * me.

 

He could have cleaned out the heavyweight division before moving down, basically only missing out Cain. It would then be a case of what if, and Cain would be the only person that stood between him and being heavyweight champion.

 

He said if it wasn't for Jones, Cormier is in the conversation. Which is still a ridiculous claim. Jones is far far superior to Cormier.

Gustafson, he's better Cormier and * near proved it. But MMA is all about style match ups, and when you're the heavier man and you're that good at wrestling you already have a big advantage.

See out of all the names I listed and the many more I could list that are above Cormier on an all time list, the only names that have been contested are Nick Diaz, Cowboy and McGregor. Which is fair, but it's also a matter of opinion. You're talking about guys who might have more loses than Cormier, but also double the amount of fights. If you don't rate Nick Diaz and Cowboy as greats then you're mad, and really the one in denial. I've not put down Cormiers ability, I've just said he's not Top 10 all time. His record doesn't justify that, his Olympic pedigree doesn't justify that.

 

Mad he was in line for a title fight when he dodged Werdum and JDS was above him. It does make sense, they are both huge fights for any heavyweight and if he could say he beat everyone that mattered except the greatest heavyweight of all time then that's pretty * impressive. If he had a win over either one of them we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

It's all well and good saying he's undefeated at heavyweight but he never fought anyone elite. Bigfoot and Nelson are good fighters but not elite, Mir is a great, but at the time he wasn't near that, Barnett is the best it got and that's a huge win to have but it doesn't justify talk of Top 10 all time.

Then he he moved down to a weight he can use his wrestling to bully people. He knocked out Pat Cummins a guy who was 4-0 at the time. Then he fought Henderson who is basically a Middleweight. Then somehow again that justified a title shot.

The guy can talk and he's marketable. He got a huge push without being tested by an elite fighter. Henderson is elite to me, but the weight difference there makes it such a mismatch.

So his work in the last 2 years is his best. 2 wins over Rumble, one Rumble gassed and the other Rumble obviously went against the game plan him and his coaches had set. He beat an Anderson Silva who's so far from his best he probably shouldn't be fighting anymore. The Gustafson one was a war, that's the most impressive win on his record but it was a split decision. Could have been very different.

I'm like a broken record, I'm not denying his ability, I'm deny that he's top 10 all time.

 

Because when it's that good, against smaller guys, it's not as impressive. People are cherry picking and not even talking about the points I make