Religion: A Necessary Evil?

Religion and morality have similarities but morality can exist without religion so they are distinct concepts. A person can be moral without being religious.

 

Yes but im talking about the start of it all. When religion was developing. I dont think people back then where as moral about things as just now, which i think is thanks to religion.

 

wonderful post

 

I think Nickys post ws very good buy I sort of know what you mean in some way. It is frustrating that pluralism, freedom of concience/speech and ecumanism is unilateral. Thats going to end with a Europe giving up its core ancient heritage and bending over backwards for others but without any reciprocation in the non-Christian world.

 

Given the choice I'd rather have religion forced upon me.

 

Looking at the Christian religion the Bible does exactly that. The Old Testament is full of stories to teach the populace the differences between right and wrong. Take the story of Adam and Eve and Soddom and Gommora. Then there is Noah and his Ark - aw come on that is just a kids story, there isn't enough water to cover the earth for a start and how big was that boat again? Was it written by * or by men influenced by *? Highly unlikely as the stories have roots or similarities in other legends, myths and religious writings such as Bhuddism. Take the story of Moses going up the mountain and coming back with tablets of stone minus his hammer and blunt chisel. His band which took 40 years to cross about 1000 odd miles were getting out of hand so he went up a hill and came down with a message from * telling them to behave, stop partying and get a move on. The Commandments are just basic human decency and hardly 10 laws out of reach of the human ability to come up with. The Old Testament was written centuries after these so called biblical events happened and were previously recanted by word of mouth down through the generations all the while changing a wee or a big bit. Once it was written another problem presented itself, it's translation from Aramaic or whatever into Greek, Latin and English with scholars of varying degrees of ability and differing interpretations of the text, even invention. Maybe in 10,000 years time we will have cathedrals and churches in honour of Kal El and his son and instead of the crucifix we will have a big S.

The New Testament however is a different matter although it too has disrepancies depending on who wrote it and what faith you are. Some argue Jesus is the Son of * others say he was a prophet. The Aramaic word for walking by the water is the same as walking on the water. ETC ETC.

Playing devils advocate here but the above is partly my reason for taking a different path in life and the more I read about it the more I question the existence of a higher being.

 

Man made institutions to control the masses imo

 

I don't need religion to tell me right from wrong!

 

Yes some very interesting points there made by Nicky. This is just a thought I will throw out there. Is some of this sectarian attitude to non muslims in muslim dominated countries linked with economics? It seems most muslim dominated counties are outright poor countries or if the country has wealth it is concentrated in a small elite.
Basically is the intolerance a question of a muslim elite using the ignorance of the masses to keep power and control? Again not saying this is the case just thinking that might be a factor in muslim intolerance of others views.

 

I have that book as well, great stuff. I was an atheist before I read it but was sometime afraid to admit it to people in fear of being judged harshly. Now I freely admit that I am not religious and fid that religion does a lot more harm than good.

 

Ya, I read a quote somewhere that read:
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false,
and by rulers as useful."

 

I fully second that! we have to differ between churches and religion. I say no matter where humans are, there is hatred, envy and so on, just pure evil.

the title of this thread must be: Human: A necessary evil?

 

religion is just a way for a minority elite to control people for their own gain.
stamp out religion i say!
personally i believe jesus christ was bit of a wacko who went thru a mid life crisis and started making nonsensical claims to be the son of *. if you did that today youd end up in a nut house. just because it happend 2000+ years ago doesnt make it any less crazy

 

I don't quite see how you have misread my point.

The point clearly being that in 500 years it wil be very easy to make a soundbite of this war as being that of Christain Vs Muslim, and that this will probably happen (as we have likely done with past conflicts, ignoring the subtle political and peronal influences of the time, perhaps).

Similarly, in a few hundred years time many may still make the comment that Religion causes wars etc etc, and point to the Iraq Wars of the late 20th and early 21st centuries as clear evidence.

Now, we all know Iraq was about power, greed and who knows what else.. military training.. weapons testing opportunity. I would put nothing past some of the people in power. Not Religion.

My point is that people would be as simplistic in thinking the Iraq war was a religious one as many now are in using other wars as examples.

Also, regarding the state of affairs in places like Turkey.. they are simply on the same linear path that almost all civilizations follow, only a few increments behind where we are at now. What you have described could easily be attributed to these islands in past centuries.. in fact within the last century! *, where I live it was only 40 years ago you basically weren't allowed a vote if you were a Catholic! Part of the United Kingdom.. advanced or what!?

Remove all the smoke and mirrors, pomp and ceremony that gets taught as post Industarilised history and a couple of things stand out.

Great Britain only became "Great" (along with other Imperial powers: Portugal, Spain etc) chiefly because of one turning point. The greatest six pointer in human history, when these Empires plundered an entire continent not only for its mineral wealth but, shockingly, (and beneficially): to trade it's human life. The slave trade.

People may be interested to know that Africa (then) was not actually that far behind in it's potential and level of development in relation to Europe as the current gaping chasm now would have us believe. That's why I call it the greatest six pointer ever, the lifeforce sucked out of one place and at the same time turned into monetary value by another place.

Now, realising this, and also the fact that we were all running about in loin cloths when Muslim countries were inventing mathematics, perfecting astronomy and medicine.. should we ask ourselves if our current position of favour is so permanent, or if we have any real moral high ground to speak from?

In the end, it's all relativity and perspective.

 

i firstly am not a believer in a greater power that created the world i believe in evolution ect.

but although religion has caused may problems in the world its also the foundation for the way we live our lives, our laws and values.

 

I would consider myself a Catholic but don't go to Church, basically coz it's boring. We used to have a cool priest years ago but he ran off with the woman from the top of our road lol. But seriously, I don't believe that religion causes troubles, all wars are ultimately about land and religion is used as an excuse. I have no problem with anyones religion and don't judge anyones beliefs no matter who if anyone they worship.

 

If this was a poll then we can clearly see that the majority of people are either unsure, don't believe or quite don't practice any religion at all.

Therefore, why has the church so much power over us all?

It can dictate where we send our schools, continues to see many ask for a religious ceremony for marriage and Christenings and probably, what most of us would like, a Christian burial.

Why?

Is it due to a fear of the unknown or just that we feel we need to follow protocol in these instances?

After all, without these few occasions, when would any of us actually be in a church?

 

Good point Thombhoy, lets bring them down!!
After the Archbishops outburst the other week it shows how out of touch the churches are. There are many situations that the churches are out of touch with modern way of thinking and as stated before the condom issue is another major one. Do we need these institutions around at all? Up to the individual I think, but when you look at it, it could be classed as brainwashing from an early age.

 

what other ways are there to get buried im up for suggestions any cool ways

but im sure it will be what ever will be the easyest way for my daughter thats if she is not the one that ends up putting me there lol

 

Thomobhoy I absoloutely agree with you.

However I would take it a stage further. IMO Religion has no place in the modern world. It was designed and still is today for weak minded people to follow and not think for themselves. The oldest religion correct me if I am wrong is Judaism and this is only 5000 years old or so. How can anyone in their right mind think the world was created within this short time period as most religions are founded upon this belief, everyone knows the world is millions of years old.

It is obvious to me that someone wrote a maserpiece of teachings that have been adapted overtime to suit certain peoples points of view and inturn to create their own religious/cults.

A bit like you I have no problem with people who wish to follow and be apart of something bigger. Where I do have a problem is when certain religious groups use their beliefs for the wrong reasons i.e terroism and barbaric actions. Every religion has been tarnished at some point in history in regards to violence etetcetc. And for what to be part of a religious club it makes absoloutly no sense at all.