Labour Revival?

Under Kinnock? * me, he was the beginning of the end of the Labour party as a proper left-wing entity in many ways.

Corbyn is a man of far more substance and integrity than the Rt Hon Lord Kinnock.

 

Dont forget he is also a 'man of principles' :smiley-laughing002:

 

He's a man who's trapped between a rock and a hard place if we're honest. He's someone with old school Labour values leading a party that is full of career politicians and centre-right post-Blair disciples.

I hope we wins through and those Blairite types move on.

Say what you want about his and "old Labour" principles (and I'm not the biggest fan of left-wing politics a lot of the time), but balance has to be restored in the UK.

We need a strong left-wing voice to counteract the right-wing Conservatives.

* has gone to * ever since Labour made the move to centre or even centre-right in many cases.

Will moving to the left make Labour electable? Who knows? But this constant chopping and changing in an effort to become electable is what has * them over, as no one really knows where they stand now.

The Conservatives are right-wing (not far-right, of course) and they proudly stand by their ethos. I don't necessarily agree with them most of the time, but at least you know what you're getting when you vote for them.

Labour need to nail their flag to the left-wing mast. At the very least they should be strong enough to counteract a lot of the right-wing policies the Government throw at us.

If enough people decide that the current setup isn't working, then Labour become electable.

Besides, it all plays out in cycles. We had Labour running things for years, now we have Conservative.

It'll change again over time. It always does.

 

He is pretty much a career politician as well though he, under blair, had ample opportunity to resign and stand as an Independent (as his principles/integrity would demand you would think ).

There was a reason 'old' labour needed changed. Corbyn taking it back to what it was will not make them electable now, despite what the likes of 'momentum' want.

Your point about cycles isn't really accurate, the labour party that was running things for years wasn't a 'labour party' that you are arguing for, was it.
I think it's safe to say that corbyns type of politics aren't wanted by the majority of voters.

 

I had a family member who was definitely "old Labour" and he didn't resign when * started to change.

He viewed Labour as his party, the party of the working class, and he certainly wasn't going to walk away and leave it after so many years.

I'm thinking Corbyn thinks the same.

No, Labour could easily have moved with the times without selling out its basic principles. by doing that it actually lost its identity.

Corbyn, and those in the Labour Party membership who support him, want to see a return to those values in a modern world.

I think it says a lot when you see the age group of those who support him. It's not the old pensioners who remember the days of Scargill, it's the young who want a fairer, more equal system that works in a modern world.

So, what's your suggestion then? Just close up shop and go home? Leave the right-wing parties to it?

Or change the whole face of the party to become more like those right-wing parties in order to try and cajole votes?

Nah, not for me. You stand by the principles that made your party what it is, and you show the electorate that right-wing politics isn't the answer.

 

If they do that then they will be as well 'shut up shop' as the majority of voters won't vote for an old style labour party nowadays. If corbyn is true to these principles, that you seem to believe he has, then he would set up his own 'Real old style Labour party' with those who share his vision.
All that is happening just now, with corbyns continued presence, is that the labour party will/is tearing itself apart and there will be no serious opposition at all.

 

It's hypocritical of you to keep using this agument against Corbyn. Not long ago you said that you were not happy with a number of things that are going on within the SNP, yet you remain a member of the party.

Why is it ok for you to stay but Corbyn should leave?

If you really care about something you don't just * off and leave it to people who would destroy it.

 

Its a Celtic revival I want ! No bothered about Labour!

 

I think your wrong with most voters wont vote for old style labour, I think no matter who is in charge of labour the tory * will win the next election anyways but most young labour voters including myself agree with Corbyns views and want him incharge hence why he won by such a land slide when he was elected and he will win it again, with that support behind hom and quite a few older people coming out to vote for the labour they grew up with I can see support rallying behind him.

I for one have never been so passonate behind a leader and to be honest I'm sick to * with closet Torys like Liz Kendell, Millabands, Eagle ect ect trying to push Corbyn out because he isnt right and isn't a * Tony Blair ball sniffer, Daibhi is right, we need a left wing alternative to the ever growing list of right wing * that are polluting the uk and Corbyn is the man to lead Labour.

His support is sevreley underestimated and Eagles about to find that out, here in the North East of England he is massively supported the same goes for pretty much any young Labour voter I know bar a few and if Corbyns views can be echoed for the coming years and with the right wing * out the Party, Labour can unite and win a general election.

 

When Tony Blair took over leadership of Labour it did need modernising, that's for sure.

What it didn't need was completely stripped of its identity and purpose, which is what happened.

Labour today is suffering the effects of that time, because it simply doesn't have an identity. It became a centrist party with ever so slight rightist leanings (although not quite as far right as the Conservatives under Cameron).

That kind of party will appeal to no one, as those of that disposition are more than likely voting Conservative, whilst the abandoned working classes won't vote Labour due to their shift in attitude towards them.

The party is basically in no man's land, and there's a battle going on between a woman in Angela Eagle who wants to continue drifting simply because it suits her and her ilk, whilst Corbyn and his followers, of which there are many within the party, want to steer the ship back on course.

Sure, it'll take a while before the working classes trust Labour again, and rightfully so, but Corbyn is the man for that job.

They may not be electable in time for the next election, but that will depend on the stance they take and how the people of the UK react to how a Conservative party that has swung further to the right under May continues on course.

What I do know is that for any sense of parity British politics needs a Labour party that sticks with its left-wing ideology, but that manages to modernise it for today's society.

That's not an impossible task. It'll be difficult, but it's not impossible. There are various political groups throughout Europe who have managed it.

 

No its not :smiley-laughing002:
I have basically one major disagreement with SNP policy and some minor issues, like the bill. Now compare that with Corbyn who has voted approx 300 times against his 'own' party
There was absolutely nothing stopping him, as an established MP, standing as an Independent. So what was that about a hypocrite.

I can only repeat what I believe and an 'old style labour party' is (virtually) unelectable. I also think that much of Corbyn's 'support' is down to a get it up the establishment mentality if I'm being totally honest. Much like we have just witnessed in the EU referendum.

While you say he has the backing of the grassroots he also needs the backing of the MP's, so how will that work ? In a GE will non corbyn MP's see a pro corbyn candidate stand against them, further splitting the vote and possibly relegating them to not even being the recognised official opposition. I mean just recently the SNP did say that we should be recognised as being that as we have more loyal MP's to our party leader.

Having said that I would expect corbyn to win/keep the job. Then we can hopefully see some policies that 'his' party plan on introducing, then the fun will really start I suspect.

 

Yes, but what is your view of an "old Labour" party? When people like me say that Labour need to return to their roots, what exactly do you think I mean?

 

It is. You have a 'major disagreement' with SNP policy yet you choose to remain a member of the party. Which is exactly the position Corbyn has no doubt found himself in on numerous occasions. I would guess that most of the occasions Corbyn has voted against his own party would be in the Blair/post Blair era. Not exactly surprising given that Corbyn is old Labour.

If he stood as an Independent he would be leaving the Labour Party. Leaving it in the hands of diet Tories. If you are part of an organisation/group and you see that organisation/group being taken down the wrong path by other people then you have two choices in front of you - 1. Leave 2. Fight from within. Neither is wrong. It depends on your own personal conscience and the prevailing circumstances. The Labour movement has obviously been a huge part of Corbyn's life so I actually kind of admire him for staying with Labour and trying to reclaim it's political soul.

 

Are you meaning like under Attlee ?

 

Wasn't he leader during the 40's & 50's?

 

Massive difference between ONE and approx 300 times.

 

Yep 1945/51

 

In what way do you think that people such as me who want Labour to return to its roots want it to return to the party under the leadership of Attlee?

 

I think the old style Labour is what made Labour great and what it needs to return to. Corbyn is not the old style of Labour. Labour are social democrats, Corbyn is not a Social democrat, he is a Left wing populist. Labour are a party of progress, minimum wage, working tax credits, maternity leave, universal suffrage, gay rights, devolution. Labour's history is defined by progressive reform that benefits everyone. Whether you are in Glasgow, Sheffield, London or Newcastle or Birmingham that universal principle of progress binds us. That's who we are. Not this teenage angst anti-establishmentism, Corbynism. That is destructive intellectual *.

 

I dont. I was assuming, originally, you would like wilson/callaghan then I thought maybe you meant earlier hence I asked 'Attlee'.