Four arrested at Dons game

Do we force anybody to participate in are politics though

 

According to Wikipedia, the WHO estimates 1.24 million deaths a year due to road traffic accidents. Soldiers also get their funerals. The point is this national day of remembrance complete with parades and saluting the royals is not about mourning their tragic deaths (hence my comparison with traffic accidents); it's about affirming they made a meaningful sacrifice for the good in this world and (WWII apart) that just isn't true and is disrespectful to their many victims. You are right, my road traffic accident analogy was a poor one, the real situation is far more perverse. It's as if we remembered those tragic deaths in road accidents but only those of the drivers, never pedestrians, by having a celebration of cars and speed.

 

That was not the question,my comment was no politics in football,or just the ones he wants.

Read his posts.

 

Is it actually now a criminal offence to break a minute's silence then?

If so, that is a * nonsense. Just as poppy fascism is. Freedom of speech is an illusion in this country. The government might as well just send us all a wee booklet telling us what they we are allowed to say and think then we can all become automatons and follow it to the letter.

 

My opinion is I accept them politics have always been in football and not just scotland I'd even support the scums right to be unionists I get why it annoys people but we can't sing * like let the people sing and support censorship

 

Yes so sadly and maybe its just me,but you couldn't comment on those poor people,that you brought up,who lost their lives in tragic traffic accidents without bringing "royals" into it,aye ok.

Aye ok again,so in the book of RR,the most humble one,all those people who lost their lives in WW1,did'nt "made a meaningful sacrifice",in your book.
Please explain,this should be good.

 

But don't you see, that's the point. Why does remembering the fallen have to involve royals and dress uniforms with all the military ranks and shows of force and politicians and all the very things that are the cause of these * wars and the deaths of both the troops, enemy combatants and innocent civilians? That's the point. They are the ones that muddy the waters and they do so quite deliberately.

As I say, it's like remembering victims of road accidents with a celebration of cars.

as for WWI it is difficult to see any good side or bad side. You have a war of imperial powers over imperial ambitions triggered by the assassination of the heir of an imperial head of state. Those poor men were cannon fodder for the imperial ambitions of the powerful on all sides. This very pointlessness of their deaths makes it more tragic, not less, and I for one am more than happy to remember them in as many silences as you wish.

Edited to correct a factual innaccuracy in the original.

 

A good few years ago I lost my Papa. He was someone I admired and enjoyed his company. I seen him everyday as a child and loved spending time watching the horse racing, Grandstand and helping him with Spot the Ball. He was a craftsman, mainly building boats for fishing( the old wooden ones non of yer fancy * like today).

For a school project on the 2nd World War we were asked to speak to relatives or people we knew about being part of it. It was a subject I had never broached with him until that point.

My Papa fought in North African Campaign and then onto Italy, it isn't the most well known battles of WW2. He was wounded during the battle( leg and foot injuries) and spent some time in the infirmary. Everything I had heard before was about "brave men sacrificing their lives"and how the War was won. His viewpoint was far from the picture I had of it all.

He spoke at length about his feelings of what he saw during his time. He spoke about how he felt he was "cannon fodder" because of the injuries he sustained limited his ability to fight. He also felt it put his fellow soldiers at risk. He talked about how disheartening it was and how difficult he felt year after year seeing people around him die.

He lost good friends during this time but fortunately made it back home himself. This was no comfort to him though. He was angry about the whole situation not just at Hitler and Co but all his Commanders and the allied politicians.

In the time I grew up and until his death, he never took part in the local Remeberance Services, nor did he view it on TV, nor did he wear a poppy or donate to the Haig Fund. It was galling to see pictures with Prince Charles and his cronies standing with medals pinned to them, when they had done nothing to merit wearing them. He did visit the memorial in his own time and took me one day to show the names of friends he lost.

He would agree that these were "brave men sacrificing their lives" but should never have come to it in the first place.

I understand the above might have little to no relevance to whether people should observe a minutes silence. However lets also not kid on that these guys were treated with the respect they deserved either by the politicians, Generals and the like of the time either.

 

Sounds like one * of a man. No doubt that we owe that generation a great debt in this country, and not only for fighting Hitler.

 

He would have told you otherwise. He would have happily forgot it all and never heard it mentioned again.

 

Harry Patch - was the last surviving British soldier of world war 1.
Died at aged 111 years, 1 month, 1 week and 1 day old

 

More mindless drivel. If you read his posts over the last few days his point has not been that he is against the silence but that he believes everyone shouldreact to it in whatever way they see for. It is quite sad that so many of you struggle with this basic concept.

 

Both my grandfathers fought in ww2.1 Scottish and 1 polish,as I recall my Scottish grandfather telling me the last place he wanted to be was stuck in the middle of a conflict where he might not get home to his wife and kids.he was still there though and almost didn't make it home on a couple of occasions.my polish grandfathers region of poland was 1 of the first taken by the nazis and he was thrown into the war whether he liked it or not.after the war he stayed here in scotland after meeting my gran.he wore his poppy every year and organised and attended fundraisers also. Now I don't agree with the fact that fundraising has to be done to help inured soldiers or to help care for veterans as I believe the government (that sent these guys to war) should fork out the whole bill in its entirety. But for anyone to say my grandfathers weren't brave when every day there life was in the balance is an insult to ANY soldier ANYWHERE that's ever been caught up in a war.
War should never happen and in my eyes is never justified but to say the young men and women who get caught up in it aren't brave is ignorant and disrespectful

 

I agree it would take bravery to have fought the Nazis, particularly in Poland. However, I thin the point he was making that it's not quite so brave to shoot 14 unarmed civilians in Derry, or to go and bomb the middle east back to the stone age

 

I'm pretty sure last year we set a good example, for me personally its a shame thet we could not have followed on from that. At the end of the day the only outcome to disruption is bad press for the club. What about the Celtic players that where involved in the world wars, silence could have been held for them and not for the things people disagree with. Whats done is done I just find it unfortunate that some fans knowingly bring bad press on the club.

 

What happened?

 

My views are perfectly consistent: politics is fine in football, just don't force others to agree with you or even be silent.

I personally think it is legitimate to disagree with the people remembering those who died fighting in an army that is/was an occupying force in Ireland and other countries while celebrating the people that fought against these occupations; if you think that makes these people idiots, can you explain why. I think they have a legitimate point of view that they are entitled to express in vocal opposition.

 

Good point.

 

Some things are more important than our PR. Silence could indeed be held for the brave people you mention, but this silence was explicitly for anyone killed fighting for Britain since 1914 if I have understood correctly. The way they lump such a broad array of conflicts and men together in these things makes for a very difficult issue because I don't believe any Celtic fan wants to disrespect those who died in the two world wars.