Non-champions in the Champions League

By the way I think it's an absolute travesty that teams like Celtic, Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV, Partizan Belgrade, Anderlecht, Rapid Vienna, Olympiakos, Sparta Prague etc are so irrelevant in European football terms now. It's a horrible situation while clubs like Chelsea, Man City, PSG are flying high despite having little history.

 

Spot on. These are the clubs that are suffering. Clubs that have illustrious histories but no means to realise their ambitions currently.

 

Agree with the OP.

It's a 'cash-cow' more than anything else now and the 'seedings system' is designed to get the teams from the big countries through, thus generating more revenue.

What sort of 'European Champions League' can have a final consisting of 'Valencia V Real Madrid', 'Juventus V AC Milan', 'Chelsea V Man United' or 'Bayern Munich V Borussia Dortmund'??

Ridiculous, boring and unfair, the sooner people see through it the better.

Now imagine if it had the format of the Scottish and English FA Cups, a completely open draw where anyone can get anyone else, with a one-off random tie, toe-to-toe.

Then I'm interested.

 

Would love the Champions League revert to straight knockout stages and for Europa League to do the same.

 

Agreed, only Champions should play in it, but only Champions of FIFA, ranked top 30 European countries

 

Be alot easier to organise if you made that the top 32 ranked countries.

 

I hate how it's called this as it clearly isn't it will never change however I fully expect to see a different format in time there's no * way 3rd and 4th place should automatically qualify due to playing in a country!

Should just think back to the Liverpool Everton situation when Liverpool won it and where behind Everton in the epl !

 

It's all about the money for the Uefa mafia I'm afraid

I'm pretty sure platini wasn't happy that English clubs where dominating for a while when Spanish etc where not and they could create more revenue !

I'm sure he made the Monaco Porto game as an example and sayd this to barca v whoever created more revenue more viewers etc it's his worse nightmare if two teams
Like this reach the final

Even at that I just don't think he likes English clubs doing well at all! You can tell it with his body language when giving out medals etc

 

Why? Why should they be European 'powerhouses'? Because they dominate their domestic leagues? So Neftchi Baku PF, Dinamo Tbilisi, NK Maribor and Slovan Bratislava should be European 'powerhouses' as well?

Should Dumbarton be a Scottish 'powerhouse' because they were competitive once upon a time? Should Celtic give Dumbarton money to even the playing field? Should the SFA give them money?

Steaua Bucharest and Red Star Belgrade only won European Cups because their players were trapped behind the iron curtain, unless you propose scrapping European freedom of movement and human rights laws to prevent the players from leaving Eastern Europe then they aren't going to be able to compete with clubs from England, Spain, Germany and Italy.

Should Deadgers get a free pass into the Europa League because they won the Cup Winners' Cup and were competitive in Europe in the 60's/early 70's? Should they get a financial leg-up from UEFA because of their 'illustrious history'? Should UEFA boot out Real Betis for the sake of Deadgers?

European trophies:

Chelsea pre-Abramovich: 3
Man City pre-Sheikh: 1
PSG pre-Qatar: 1
Partizan Belgrade: 0
Rapid Vienna: 0
Olympiacos: 0
Sparta Prague: 0

Is it really the fault of Chelsea, Man City and PSG that the above clubs are no longer relevant to European football? When they were 'relevant' they still couldn't compete with clubs from the more economically powerful countries.

I'm all for a more equitable distribution of television revenue but the simple fact is that if you chuck out the likes of Milan, Arsenal, Real Madrid and Borussia Dortmund then people aren't going to pay as much to watch the competition, resulting in less revenue to distribute to competing clubs. The notion of booting out Arsenal for the sake of Neftchi Baku PF strikes me as being rather ludicrous.

Steaua and Red Star aren't sleeping giants, they can't attract much more than 10,000 fans to a league match for crying out loud. Steaua aren't a force because the Romanian Revolution toppled the regime that propped the club up and the end of the Cold War allowed their best players the freedom to better their lives. Red Star aren't a force because a genocidal war broke up the Balkans and ended the Yugoslav national team, and the end of the Cold War allowed players the freedom to better their lives.

Stop acting as if UEFA flicked a * switch and said 'sorry, you can't play any more', it's a load of bosh. Even if the European Cup continued as a straight knockout tournament throughout the 90's and 2000's Red Star and Steaua wouldn't have had a hope in * of competing.

How would a champions-only straight knockout format help the situation, though? One loss and you're gone would result in less game time for the smaller clubs, not to mention less gate money and less TV money.

Barcelona and Real Madrid can rake in billion pound-plus TV revenue deals on the strength of their respective profiles alone, if you strip away all of their Champions League revenue over the last, say, ten years, and give it to Neftchi Baku PF, are they going to be able to attract the players to compete with Real and Barca?

 

I wouldn't mind it if it went to simply Champions only. At the end of the day, the way the competition is at present, is just driving a bigger barrier between the top sides, and the rest of Europe. The name of the competition is another thing that annoys me. Petty I know, but the tag "Champions League" is absolute nonsense. Because it's made up of more teams that are not Champions of their country.

If it was to become only the champions of the countries, then the smaller teams would no doubt begin to close the gap in terms of the gulf in class. Of course, it wouldn't be the case right away, but through time, it would change I think. And had this been implemented from the start of the "Champions League", there would perhaps be a lot more teams competeting on a more level playing field.

3rd placed teams in their country getting straight into the Group Stages, ahead of teams that have won their domestic leagues is a complete joke in my opinion. "Champions League", don't make me laugh.

 

Excellent post Fawlty.

 

Would they, though? The champions from the big-four (Spain, England, Italy, Germany) nations are always going to be able to attract the best talent, I don't see how a straight knockout, champions-only European Cup changes that fundamental fact.

Such a format would simply make it easier for the big clubs as they'd only have three or four realistic competitors for the trophy; players wouldn't start abandoning Man City and Arsenal for the sake of European football with the champions of Azerbaijan or Slovakia.

 

I didn't propose a straight knock-out, and I wouldn't want that either. However, it certainly made the Europa League a far better tournament than what it was. And I would definitely have it back as as the format for said competition. The main reason I don't like the Europa League Group stage is because a lot of teams don't take it seriously, and the competition has been ruined I feel.

You say players wouldn't start abandoning the likes of Arsenal or Man City for the likes of Azerbaijan etc. I would argue that if the money was right, then yes they would. A bit like how most players sign with Man City at present. Nearly every player in World Football will sign for a club if the money is right. If the smaller teams were getting more income, I don't think there is any question that they would improve as a team.

Another point that could be argued, if the teams finishing in 3rd or 4th in England etc, were not getting Champions League football, would the big money men still be there. Would they still be prepared to spend as much.

I just think it's completely embarrassing and completely undermines the name of the competition, when you have teams celebrating finishing 4th in a domestic League like they had just won the thing.

 

The name 'Champions League' doesn't really suit the competition anymore.

I enjoy the champions league the way it is, and since the change to let more champions into the competition, it has suited us very well as we have avoided the likes of Arsenal etc, in the qualifying rounds.

 

The name "champions league" should really be reserved for champions competition only. If the format is going to continue as it is, UEFA should look at renaming/revamping the competition as a invitation only/elite competition rather than champions.

 

I personally think that the Europa League loses credibility when Champions League teams drop down into the knockout stages. There are a myriad of problems with the tournament as things stand.

The money is always going to be 'right' in England, Germany, Spain and Italy, though. If the Champions League was champions-only then there would be less revenue to distribute in the first place.

I don't see how clubs from unappealing countries could attract talent even if they had more cash to spend. Even when clubs from less appealing countries do get money, Russia at the moment for example, they can't attract the calibre of player to compete with clubs from the big Western European leagues. I don't see how a few extra million pounds of revenue is ever going to propel Sparta Prague et al to the heights of competing with the financial mega clubs like Barca, the financial and economic gulf outwith football is far too great for UEFA to address.

Without question. PSG essentially have a free pass into Europe as no French club can compete with them (Monaco, perhaps, but even so they'll still make the Champions League every year). The Man City project is political, Sheikh Mansour is in it for the long haul.

Even if Arsenal weren't getting into a champions-only Champions League they would still be raking in enough money to pay for top notch players.

Fair enough.

 

It's quite difficult to argue with that and sociopolitical factors across Europe have played a massive part in shaping the current financial landscape of European football.

I still feel it is an utter travesty that teams finishing third in England get a free pass into the group stages while we have to negotiate three qualifying rounds after winning our domestic league.

 

Yes, not only this but when the likes of Man City get there, they somehow get seeded higher than us who made it further in the previous tournaments!

 

This

The Champions League group stages is a complete drag. Always the same sides Qualifying.

Real Madrid should be able to play Athletico Madrid from the off as well. None of this separating countries. Complete farce.

 

I didn't say anything about scraping the group stages. I'm in favour of keeping the groups.

I'd even be in favour of replacing the knock-out qualification with a group stage. Maybe something along the lines of a group(s) consisting of champions from the very lowest leagues like Iceland, Latvia, Armenia etc and another consisting of second played teams in the major leagues.

Probable not but they (and their leagues) would improve dramatically.