Hopefully the Barca w***fest on here, will now come to an end

Unfortunately they do what? Don't hate an entire fan base we really get on with because of one group. You're right what a travesty.

 

Think he means they tar everyone with the same brush but u make a brilliant point dont judge everyone for one mans idiotic behaviour. Every group of fans has its * bandit factions where they are simply there to hate the opposition (some clubs more than others granted ... Eh sevco??!!??) but most football fans are generally decent ppl and those of us that flip out at games generally calm to a normal civilized manner after the final whistle. I for one look like a crazed ape for 90 mins then im back to normal its what i do to vent i suppose. Fascism for the record i dont find any place for anywhere these ppl fall into the * bandit category and should be expelled from the game. In germany u can be locked up for 7 years without trial for such behaviour as i was told in frankfurt a few years back

 

Visca el Barça :icon_mrgreen:

 

No-one is calling Barca racist, people simply need to recognize that the club doesn't have a spotless history. One cannot criticize Real Madrid for their dealings with the Ultras Sur without similarly criticizing Barca.

Discussions on the topic should steer clear of the well-trodden 'club x is more racist/fascist/right wing/left wing/socialist/communist than club y' path, it gets tedious.

 

I'm sorry but Barcelona was a bastion of antifascism for most of its history. It absolutely does not have a history of "courting" fascists or "facilitating" their activities so that's utter * horseshit. Boixos Nois is an insult to the history of both Barcelona and Catalunya.

I didn't dismiss Real Madrid in its entirety as fascist or "Francoist".

The statement in bold is exactly what you've done in that post.

 

I visca Catalunya! :icon_mrgreen:

 

I think politics has very little to do with the relationship between the two clubs. As some have pointed out, no club including Celtic have a spotless history.

The fans get on great, and that's enough for me to think the relationship is worth fostering. It's rare that football actually brings people together to the extent it does between ourselves and Barca.

 

agreed, they're *

 

What do you think the reason for that is then? Our fans undoubtedly have a closer relationship with Barcelona than almost any other club, bar St Pauli. I think the reason for that is partly because we have a right good laugh (we do with fans of most clubs) but partly because of the similar (and occasionally shared) histories of Scotland, Ireland and Catalunya. I don't particularly think it has anything to do with left & right wing politics, just the political movements in our respective countries.

 

Have you researched the topic thoroughly?

Understanding Football Hooliganism: A Comparison of Six Western European Football Clubs

Dismissing Boixos Nois as an 'insult to the history of both Barcelona and Catalunya' is ignorant and simplistic, the group was left-leaning when it emerged and it was a bastion of Catalanism throughout its tumultuous history.

It blossomed as it began to take cues from the emerging Italian ultra scene and British supporter culture, hence the bulldog symbol, English and Scottish flags at games and the singing of songs such as * Save the Queen and When the Saints Go Marching In at Camp Nou. All of the above predated the emergence of the Neo-* element.

Even when the fascists were in the ascendancy the group was still not solely right-wing, left wing, anti-fascist and apolitical elements have always been present within Boixos Nois.

Ignoring the facts because they clash with your view of Barca as a 'bastion of antifascism' is infantile, the reality is that Barca is a complex institution that has attracted both right-wing and left-wing (Sang Culé) ultras over the years, along with apolitical ultras (Almogàvers) and apolitical hooligans. Likewise, Catalan Nationalism is a diverse ideology with both progressive and conservative, left-wing and right-wing strains.

Barca courted and facilitated the activities of Boixos Nois members, including the fascist element. They were given privileges such as reduced price/free tickets and subsidized travel. Right-wing Barca presidents Josep Nunez and Joan Gaspert also backed the group publicly whilst using them to intimidate political opponents.

I never said that you did, but you're smart enough to know that there are many who do. Hence 'people cannot', not 'you cannot'.

How so? I'm not the one constructing a simplistic narrative around Barca to suit my own political ideology, I'm simply examining the history of the club's relationship with its right-wing supporters in an impartial manner.

 

I was referring to the period between 1936 and 1975, as I'm sure you know. Surely, you are not going to deny that, are you?

You've focused solely on the right-wing elements in its recent history so you're not being impartial, are you? I'm well aware of the political make-up of the support and of the Catalan independence movement. I'm not constructing a simplistic narrative around Barça to suit my own political ideology... the only political connection I've made between our supporters is nationalism.

 

To come back to your original point...

How many fascists does it take to ruin a club? You might want to take a look closer to home (Chelsea) before you start making statements like that. Unless you don't have a zero-tolerance approach to fascism... which would be upsetting.

And I believe you were the one who said we should stay clear of branding clubs x & y.

 

Deny what, that opponents of Franco rallied around Barca over the years? That goes without saying.

I am being impartial, I'm simply not being willfully ignorant of the presence of fascist ultras within Barca's support base over the years and the support given to said fascist ultras by various elements within the club's hierarchy.

Fair enough, but there are those who try to spin a distinctly far-left narrative when it comes to Barca, ignoring the political diversity of Catalonia in the process.

Barca's efforts under Laporta to quash the influence of the violent fascist element within the club's support should be commended but their policies haven't just focused on the right-wing of Boixos Nois, Sang Culé and the apolitical Almogàvers have had their expression stifled over recent years, which is unfortunate.

It's a shame that Boixos Nois was corrupted by right-wing elements given that it started out as something positive, ironically enough a similar process happened within the wider skinhead movement which was initially influenced by West-Indian culture and music such as Ska before being co-opted by racists who turned it into something negative.

I'm not trying to get people to stop following Barca, that isn't my intention at all. People simply need to be aware of their less than impressive record when it comes to dealing with fascist ultras and not be so quick to attack those who feel more inclined to like Real Madrid for footballing reasons.

Personally I dislike both Barca and Real for their duopoly and prefer to follow Athletic Club and Valencia.

The example of Chelsea illustrates my point perfectly, the very same people that dismiss us as 'fascists' fawn over Barca despite Barca having a similar problem with fascist hooligans giving their club a bad name. Our chairman certainly never courted the small element of racist hooligans like Barca's presidents courted Boixos Nois, indeed, he erected an electric fence in front of the terraces to stop them from getting onto the pitch! :smiley-laughing002:

 

This relationship has only been formed in very recent years, the political ideology of the clubs have been the same since inception on terms of their stance on Scotland/Ireland and Catalonia.

I think it's formed mainly because the fans get on well. The reason being we've played them so many times in recent years, appreciate good football when see it, and had our most loved player in recent times go and win the CL for them.

 

Fair enough. I follow Athletic, as well. Oddly enough, the only Athletic supporter I've ever spoken to was a fascist (on Twitter after the death of Clément Meric). The only two clubs (that I can think of off the top of my head) that are entirely leftist are St Pauli & Livorno so I don't think of Barcelona as such. I'd say Celtic fans, on the whole, are generally left-leaning but I don't think of Celtic as a leftist club.

 

That's true. You only tend to form relationships with clubs you've played though, to be fair. :smiley-laughing002: Unless there're links between the ultras groups (as is the case with St Pauli). I think the first time we played Barcelona was just over a decade ago.

 

People shouldn't have to like them because of that. I don't care for this club either, even if he had won the CL with them.

 

Nobody said you have to like them but Larsson achieving success and getting the Champions League trophy with Barcelona was something I believe all Celtic fans were happy to see, he deserved it.

 

Without a doubt. And to see him making such a huge difference on the biggest stage of all was a serious testament to the quality he had.

I loved that man. Still love him. He was never flashy, and never really produced breathtaking moments of genius. His genius was in the consistently high quality of his performances over a sustained period. He did everything so well, and with no fuss.

He was the ultimate professional. A brilliant team-mate, so unselfish.