Steven Gerrard Question

Exactly. He's not playing in the CL this year, nor will he be next season. Surely if he were world-class, he could lead his team to at least CL qualification?

As it is, they sit even outside the top 6, and that is unlikely to change, not while he spends most of the time in the stands watching the team.

 

I named over 20 players that had achieved more but you must have ignored that mate.

 

They had not achieved more, only people on that list who had won MORE awards was Xavi and Iniesta but if you look at my post I actually said "Post 20 people excluding Xavi and Iniesta who have won more honours".

 

So just because Michael Carrick has own more EPL titles than Gerrard it makes him better than him? Basically what you are saying.

 

Yeah but excitement is purely subjective and it doesn’t necessarily translate to quality.

I think it’s fairly obvious, the EWPL is vastly over-rated in terms of quality and excitement. The distorted impression of the EWPL’s worth is probably down to Sky’s sensationalism.

Sky have a product to sell, so it’s understandable that they should seek to hyperbolise Bolton V Wigan at the cauldron of noise that is the Reebok Stadium – but those capable of independent thought will realise that such a game is, in actual fact, little different from Hamilton V Elgin City at some equally pishy Scottish stadium.

 

The proof of a great player is on the international stage especially with the supposed quality that England has had.Gerrard has'nt gone onto that level as good a player as he is and has probably suffered with playing in a very average liverpool team and a over hyped England team.

 

Individually is what counts tbh and he would be in the top 5/10.

 

The English Premier league is worse (by far) than La Liga, it's worse than the Bundesliga and it's arguably on a par with Serie A. People in the Uk and Ireland are easily brainwashed by the English loving media in these areas. The English league was put in its place this year. Man City and Man United (2 best teams in the EPL) both finished 3rd in their CL groups and then got knocked out (United got annihilated) in the last 16 of the Europa League by very average teams (In terms of the quality both Manchester clubs consider themselves to have). The only English team still in Europe is Chelsea, says it all really. Fair play to Chelsea though, they put in a great performance at home to Napoli and squeezed through in extra time. (against the team joint on points with Udinese who, if our games against them were 2 'legs' we would have brought them to extra time in Italy.) The English league isn't near as good as the English public and indeed the Welsh, Scottish and Irish public perceive it. Their opinions have been formed by the opinions of EPL loving journalists, commentators, pundits and the media in general.

 

The Carling Cup, never has been, nor never will be a big trophy.

You’re really clutching at straws now.

That would be like us Tims claiming an SPL title victory is on par with winning La Liga.

Yes, to us, it will obviously mean a lot, but I wouldn’t go around Europe claiming the achievement is on equal par with the Spanish league title.

The reality is, the SPL is a backwater and winning a championship here will not have much impact on football supporters outwith Celtic and Rangers.

Similarly, the Carling Cup is a trophy – like the Charity Shield – which is a mere notch on the belt. Winning it means very little.

 

can say the same about messi/argentina then?

or ronaldo/portugal?

 

Ie Transfer request ie his so called Loyalty.

The whole world knows why Gerrard stayed at Liverpool and it was not for his love for the club or football reasons .

 

How is that what counts. I would trade individuals honours for a La Liga winners medal or Champions League winners medal any day of the week.

This really is clutching at straws mate.

 

Yes, I would say so.

The reason I refuse to rate Messi as the greatest player ever is because he has not done it on a stage that is considerably more challenging.

Zidane – for me – is still the greatest player I’ve ever seen. A truly big game player, regardless of the occasion.

 

Messi has won more at international level than 99% of players.

 

Cause we are discussing whose a better player not a better team. The way you put it must mean that valdes is better than neur or obefemi martins is better than van persie.

 

There is a good age difference between the two you mentioned and gerrard which gives them time to achieve the same level as their club performances.

 

I was just saying. I agree about zidane though best player ever imo.

 

Markey suggested won more makes him better than Busquets and when I pointed out Busquets had already won more you changed it to individual honours. Because it suited your argument.

 

It was nothing to day what markey said.

I was just pointing out that its a players debate not a team.

 

Don't get me wrong; Messi is great, of that there is no doubt.

But he’s playing in - what many consider to be - the greatest club side ever.

Barca are not a one-man team, Messi is surrounded by some exceptionally gifted individuals.

The worst player in the current Barcelona squad would probably be a welcome addition to nearly every EWPL team – let’s put it like that.

So whilst he’s been sensational for Barca, you have to remember Barca have been sensational for Messi.

It’s not that international football itself is more difficult because IMO the Champions League is of higher quality, but for a player; having to adapt to a different situation with different team-mates is a considerable challenge – and one which I would expect most top players to be able to make comfortably.

Messi hasn’t really done this with Argentina. I don’t think he needs to win a WC to be considered better than Maradona. But I would imagine he’d need to have some Barca-eqsue performances with Argentina before we can truly consider him to be the greatest ever.