1. Having trouble logging in by clicking the link at the top right of the page? Click here to be taken to the log in page.
    Dismiss Notice

Virgil van Dijk

Discussion in 'Ex Players' started by DutchCelticFan, Jun 21, 2013.

Discuss Virgil van Dijk in the Ex Players area at TalkCeltic.net.

Tags:
  1. PhilMitchell

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ahh... I suppose the Kelly's too were also high flying economists who deserved there wages AND Craig Whyte and Charles Green deserved their wages too (* Bless them though)

    Authority should always be questioned.
     
  2. Mr Shelby I am the son and heir Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    41,128
    Likes Received:
    16,024
    Location:
    West Lothian
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Larsson. Forever and always.
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Symphony
    Would be a very stupid move to let him go anywhere before the qualifiers.
     
  3. og1

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Donegal
    Fav Celtic Player:
    McGeady
    Good post. I often finds that he puts his own reputation before what is best for the club. His refusal to compromise has cost us many many times.
     
  4. Roy's Keane

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The moral high ground on occasion
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Naka
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Four Leaf Clover
    I'll take your word on that but I've never heard him say we don't need European football to sustain our current model. I'm sure I've always heard him say "European football is important to us financially and to help us realise our ambitions" or somesuchlike.

    How can you expect Peter Lawwell to say we need European Football to survive when it's plainly not the case? Europe is is revenue stream, no more or less (in this debate.) If we don't get it we would have to cut our cloth accordingly and we would survive.

    We don't need European Football to survive, however we would need it (at least on a semi-regular basis) to sustain the current model.

    Of course we need it to sustain the current model. How can you sustain the current model with substantially less cash? Scottish Football is an absolute money vacuum.

    Celtic will need to budget on the worst case scenario happening in Europe ie Maribor this year. Next year will be the same, but we won't thrive if we don't get into the CL. I don't recall PL ever promising that.

    You expect Lawwell to say we need Rangers to survive? Seriously?

    Look people have a problem with PL. That's their lookout and they are welcome to it. They want money spent no matter what the situation and, again, no-one will ever change that opinion.

    Everyone just needs to ask the question: where is the money?

    Arsenal have a £138m cash reserve and their fans constantly say they don't spend enough to compete with the big boys. That makes sense and is clearly a logical question to ask. Ok they don't want to spend it but they could, so why don't they? That's Arsenal's call and they can rightly be asked that question.

    Where is Celtic's cash reserves? Answers like "well they got £11m here and bought this guy for £2m" don't cut it. That's accountancy for Dummies Vol 1.

    I get people being a bit thick and just wanting the world on a * stick, but their is no rationale to it because we have no major cash reserves and therefore we employ a certain wage structure to operate within that means.

    Not accusing any of this to you, please understand, but it is galling to me to hear everyone just ranting "get the * chequebook out Peter you *" every transfer window.

    We have the model. We employ it. We are well run in the main.

    You don't like it? Fine, but it won't change because it can't change. We even just employed a manager who operates exactly to that mantra. That's not an accident, it's a thought out strategy which is being applied. Those are about as close to facts as you will get.

    Short of a huge cash injection out of left field, then that's what will happen next year, and the year after. People can rail all they want against the "evil corporate machine" and how they "hate their customers" but that's just posturing online in the main.

    I know it sounds weird after having said all that, but in a way I am glad we do have an element of suspicion around the board. It means we are unlikely to go the way of Karma FC anytime soon.

    But PL and the board play a huge part in that too, undoubtedly.:shamrock:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2015
  5. JamesM09

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2014
    Messages:
    4,278
    Likes Received:
    3,048
    Completely agree with you Roy. :smiley-laughing002:
     
  6. og1

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Donegal
    Fav Celtic Player:
    McGeady
    Does the captain of the Internet Lawwell Brigade get paid for his propaganda? I wonder?

    Our club made a profit according to the last accounts. A profit. There can be no justification in not spending every penny of the transfer fees we receive and also this profit on the team.

    It is not back of a * packet economics or other buzzword *. If our club is not in financial trouble and we are receiving x amount of money in transfer fees and only spending back pennies on the pound then we are mugs.

    We try to scrape by doing as little as possible and our team suffers for this. Time and again we blow our chance to really improve.

    Our target should be to reach the CL every season and not to be just glad to jam our way in.
     
  7. Tim-Time 1888 Always look on the bright side of Life Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,218
    Likes Received:
    7,579
    Location:
    Scotland
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Enrico Annoni
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Hail Hail
    Oh so you are now going to try and float that someone is "paid to defend Lawwell" on the internet , you really are the lowest common dominator on this forum.

    "Spend every penny" you are aware that once you spend every penny in Profit/transfers fees, we are still liable to pay those mundane things like running costs of the club , Tax, National Insurance, Electric bills , Wages for the background staff , Maintain the stadium , maintain Lennoxtown , Insurance costs, medical costs, Scouting (I would imagine the scouting bill at Celtic is huge), etc etc the list is virtually endless.

    It most certainly is back of * packet economics, when the mantra is "spend every penny".
    Spending "pennies in the pound" dear *.
     
  8. Rendog

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    14,005
    Likes Received:
    2,491
    Location:
    Philadelphia museum of art
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Kieran Tierney
    Fav Celtic Song:
    The SAM song
    Maybe every couple of seasons we can do this but not every year. That is not viable.
     
  9. wulliebad

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    18,044
    Likes Received:
    1,361
    Location:
    Land of the 45.
    I really hope some * on here don't get paid monthly.:56:
     
  10. og1

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Donegal
    Fav Celtic Player:
    McGeady
    You really are a head the ball. The expenses that you mention are normal running costs of a football club. In our near 130 years we have been able to pay these from our regular football income. In fact this is still the case now. Now if we have to sell players to run the club then the suits that you love should be run out of town today. If we receive money in for selling a player, this money should be spent on strengthening the team and nothing else. We should also be able to generate additional funds to pump into the side going by how we have operated for a very long time.
     
  11. JC Anton Over and Over Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Messages:
    44,639
    Likes Received:
    25,314
    Apart from when Fergus had to rescue the club from liquidation, through financial mismanagement.
     
  12. Jozo The Provo

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    12,938
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    hill 16
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Brown
    Fav Celtic Song:
    celtic symphony
    I think the easiest way to answer this is by just asking are we preforming as a club to are maximum. the business side is based on planning and it's extremely well run the football side is probably a good bit below are level that we should be expecting but it's all well and good saying how much we should spend on X player but at the end of the day it comes down to mostly luck ( albeit there's a higher chance of success if we spend) if the moves work out also if we signed the 6 million pound striker how much wages will he be on we'll have to stick brown and others on better contact's ect and it's probably to dangerous atm nobody hates the feeling of accepting mediocrity more then me personally the modle I'd try and fallow is get players young and cheap develop them ( like where doing now) but instead of selling after 3 years use the transfer money on bigger contracts let them grow even longer and sell for more and only sell 1 1st teamer every year and continue to grow and get stronger at a "stainable" rate
     
  13. og1

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Donegal
    Fav Celtic Player:
    McGeady
    Good post Jack :50:
     
  14. MJ9 Gold Member Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    505
    Location:
    Toryglen
    Fav Celtic Player:
    The King
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Grace
    Every time I see that you have posted something I always assume the worst and that you are on the wind up.

    I am not going to pretend for one minute that I know all of the outgoings/income celtic have... but to think that every penny of profit on players should be automatically spent on replacements is a nonsense. I am all for us splashing out on a marquee player, but I would much rather we were looking to identify prospects at a much lower price that will make an impact (not easy I know, but the likes of VVD, Wanyama, Denayer etc are examples) than simply looking at the figures and saying "we made £10mill, lets spend that". We need to make sure we maintain financial security and look for the best deals available, with a good sell on potential (in line with our signing model)

    Anyway, back to topic...Definitely think VVD will be offski come the end of the window, but I think and hope he will be with us until after the qualifiers. Also gives us time to secure replacements.
     
  15. Tim-Time 1888 Always look on the bright side of Life Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,218
    Likes Received:
    7,579
    Location:
    Scotland
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Enrico Annoni
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Hail Hail
    Yea because once a transfer fee has been paid, the player does not expect a salary nor is there any other cost to the club.
    As for the "in our near 130 years" statement, that just shows the total lack of understanding you have or does being rescued by Fergus slip your memory. :52:
    You truly are a shinning example of an individual being out of his depth, yet still constantly spouts on about the same * week after week, its scary.
     
  16. og1

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Donegal
    Fav Celtic Player:
    McGeady
    I agree with you in theory but that is not what is happening.

    If we sell Virgil for 12m then we should use the 12m on our first team. New contracts, 4m singings etc. This is not happening. We should only sell so that we can use the cash to grow stronger. This is also not happening.

    Our fans are obsessed with selling our players. And they are obsessed with lording it up about how well run we are etc.

    * that instead of being in transition every season, we need to build a team. Keep quality, add quality, and only sell if it suits us on the pitch.
     
  17. og1

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Donegal
    Fav Celtic Player:
    McGeady
    Well you are the second person to bring this up. It wasnt just Fergas Mc Cann who saved the club my dear.

    The comparison doesnt even work anyway. At that time we were already carrying debt, we had to comply with the taylor report in a set time period, and we had a banker (masterton) who was actively trying to ruin us. This is no way compares to the situation we are in now. If people think that reinvesting the total we receive for VVD will send a single wolf to the door, then I am done with this debate. I again refer to the meme about the pigeon playing chess.
     
  18. shieldsybhoy

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,683
    Likes Received:
    285
    Location:
    London
    :50:

    Unfortunately this will never happen as long as we stay in Scottish football though. Players want to leave to the prem, we can't pay them high wages etc and we are a self proclaimed 'selling club'.
     
  19. Roy's Keane

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The moral high ground on occasion
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Naka
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Four Leaf Clover
    :50:
     
  20. \o/ Gold Member Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Messages:
    68,835
    Likes Received:
    15,424
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Fav Celtic Player:
    Broony
    Fav Celtic Song:
    Celtic Symphony, YNWA, Grace
    The full selling club thing should be done as Porto did it. They started the ball rolling with smaller transfer fees, when they got bigger fees they invested more, allowing them to get bigger transfer fees for they players. It's far easier said than done but if we don't have the confidence in our scouting team to pick out these kinds of players, what's the point?

    We build our reputation by providing quality to those down south, like we already have with Ki and Wanyama. In turn that allows us to negotiate higher prices, like Porto done with Mangala.

    Right now we are at a stage of selling players for a high price and not re-investing in the squad. I don't think that is sustainable in the long run.

    And I don't mean sustainable at a business level, I mean at a footballing one. We've been in transition for the last two years, if Van Dijk goes and Denayer is gone then we'll be in a transitional period again next year. We can't do this year on year. We want to be in the Champions League, that's what we need.