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The Ronny Deila Thread

Discussion in 'World Football' started by Glasgow_Bhoy88, Jun 6, 2014.

Discuss The Ronny Deila Thread in the World Football area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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    RR, surely you have to concede that the drinking culture has an effect? If these lads with talent were playing football instead of drinking at the weekend they could surely have developed into better players.
     
  2. og1

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    We are not producing as much players over here either. Currently we only have one world class player (Coleman) and none in the top sides in England which is unheard of. I think the big bad EPL is somewhat responsible along with coaching falling behind but the most important fact for me is a cultural change. Years ago we would play football at school at break and lunch time, after school down the club, and anywhere else, any chance we got. Now wains in Ireland are not playing as much. Too much playstations and whatnot.
     
  3. Liam Scales Gold Member Gold Member

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    The effects of poverty mate, there was one ball in a street and the weans played with it constantly, no teles, playstations or other options. Football was an escape from poverty, they played it from sunrise to sunset as they had * all else to do.

    Right now there's so much more to do, so much more options and a very unhealthy culture.
     
  4. Just Kieran Gold Member Gold Member

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    I think we are being too harsh on ourselves as a nation. Our players obviously aren't brilliant, but there are players out there who were produced in this country who would enhance our squad.

    If we'd invested in the 'best of the rest' domestic talent in year gone by, and kept our own young talent, we'd have had a pretty good core of Scottish players assembled fairly cheaply.

    Whittaker left Hibs for £2m, Robertson cost Hull around £3m, McArthur and McCarthy cost Wigan less than £2m combined, Naismith left Killie for less than £2m, Fletcher moved to Burnley for less than £3m, Russell cost Derby £750k and Ross McCormack signed for Cardiff for about £100k.

    I know it's all if's and buts, hypothetical and retrospective...BUT that lot would have cost Celtic less then £13m which, when you think of the money we've wasted on foreign players in recent years, looks even more of a steal. We could have afforded to take less of a gamble with certain players in the transfer market in recent years.

    In addition Marshall, Caddis, McManus, O'Dea, Wallace, McGeady, Maloney and Watt were all part of our academy set-up and would all be (at least) good squad players.

    I've rambled a bit, but my point is that if we invest in the best young players in Scotland, give our own youth payers a chance and supplement the squad with foreign imports we'd have a much steadier side.
     
  5. Callum McGregor The Captain Gold Member

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    I think we have to be harsh on ourselves, at times, in order to improve.
     
  6. Liam Scales Gold Member Gold Member

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    Not being good enough to get to a tournament since 1998 isn't harsh mate, it's reality.
     
  7. Saul Goodman Gold Member Gold Member

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    The standard of coaching at youth level over here is our main hindrance in my opinion. That and the fact kids start playing competitive football from 7 years old, and by the age of 11 there is serious pressure on kids to win matches in the top Schoolboy leagues, which just encourages a win by all means necessary attitude. As a matter of interest, is it the same in Scotland?

    Competitive football should be scrapped until you are 14/15 years old and up until then coaching should purely be focused on developing your technical ability, passing and how to play football the right way in general. There are some positives from the way the current schoolboy set up is, but we could definitely be producing better players than we are.
     
  8. Just Kieran Gold Member Gold Member

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    Agree that as a collective unit Scotland have been poor for years, but my point is that Scotland has produced affordable players who could/would improve our current squad. That's reality.
     
  9. Liam Scales Gold Member Gold Member

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    And if buying those players made us miss out on the likes of Van Dijk or Wanyama I wouldn't be happy.

    They would improve our squad no doubt but the only one I think is actually anything special is James McCarthy, who decided to sign Ki instead of.

    My point is we are far more likely to find genuine quality outwoth our borders than within.
     
  10. og1

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    I agree with all of that. From what I am hearing things are getting more progressive though but we are still miles behind. Underage drinking is a big problem though that is not really mentioned. There have been plenty of good players who could have done something in the game if it wasnt for falling into that trap.

    At senior level I think the whole of Ulster could do with a shake up though. The Ulster Senior League is a good level but it is basically a Donegal league. I would like to see some integration with football in the North. Another example of how partition * Donegal in the *.
     
  11. Just Kieran Gold Member Gold Member

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    When a young player stands out in the SPL they generally tend to English Championship quality at the very least. Can think of Riordan and Goodwillie who flopped.

    My point was that these players represent less of a gamble than signing foreign players, meaning we could afford to be more selective when recruiting from abroad. Plus, the Scottish players would generally be happier to stay at Celtic, as opposed to signing for a mid-ranking team in the EPL.

    It's all pie in the sky theory, but I've always thought it's a policy that's served us well.
     
  12. Random Review

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    I think we've always underachieved as a nation due to the drinking culture. It was a problem before and a problem now, it's not what has changed, though. The difference is we underachieved before by not getting out of the WC groups (with the players we had, we really should have); now we don't even produce players good enough to qualify.
     
  13. Liam Scales Gold Member Gold Member

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    I think they do have their place but some of the best Scottish players should be squad filler for us, like Stephen Pearson back in the day.

    I do know what you're saying though, I just don't think we should be lookimg at Scotland as much as we have been lately.

    Saying that, Christie does look a player.
     
  14. og1

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    Up to a point I agree with this but there has been very few quality players who have come out of Scotland in recent years. We should always be looking far and wide as well for the likes of Wanyama and Virgil to imrove on a British and Irish core.
     
  15. Random Review

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    Oh, I know that story, mate, and its not wrong; but it's only half the truth.

    It's what we have done to the poor that is the problem.

    I don't see a generation of young people living the dream with a smorgasbord of options for their delight and entertainment; I see a generation screwed over by the people who run this country (government, business, media, etc), with incredibly high unemployment levels and only *, meaningless jobs on offer for many of them. I see young people desperately scrambling for what status and recognition is still on offer in the unhealthy drink/drugs culture that is all that is on offer to them now that most traditional forms of working-class support have been successfully undermined. I see very few safe, free places for them to actually play football compared to the past. It all hangs together.

    Overeating, binge drinking, overuse of drugs, they're all forms of abuse, really. We usually are quick to locate the decisions in the people concerned and blame the victim (if we're right wing) or talk in patronising terms of needing to educate them about looking after their bodies and minds (if we're left wing); but if we take a step back, it's very clear that young poor people show on their bodies the effect of what is effectively emotional abuse in the messages they get from the powerful via the media, TV programme, films, etc.

    To really put in the hours needed to be a great player, you need to be in a far less damaging environment. It's the flip side of the societal abuse I was talking about above, because that amount of investment of time and energy in yourself is a form of self-love, exactly what our society undermines.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2015
  16. Just Kieran Gold Member Gold Member

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    Pearson cost £300,000, we got a few decent years out of him, and then moved him on. And he wasn't even that good compared to other Scottish midfielders who were emerging in the few years after like Brown, Thompson (when fit), McArthur, McCarthy...even the older guys like Robson & Hartley. All of them are either good 1st team players, or the types who can do a job for a few seasons and move on.

    Just think, relatively cheaply, we could have a starting lineup of...

    Marshall

    Whittaker - ?????? - ??????? - Robertson

    McCarthy -Brown

    McGeady - Naismith - Maloney

    Fletcher

    Ultimately, I think this is the direction the board is moving in. That starting XI would (in theory) have cost Celtic around £15m, and the players who are capable of moving to a higher level would have made us as big a profit as the foreign players who have moved on recently.
    Any good young foreign players we sign (Van Dijk, Wanyama, Bitton etc) would still be able to force themselves into that side and improve it.
     
  17. Just Kieran Gold Member Gold Member

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    I'm obviously not suggesting a Scottish/Irish only transfer strategy, but it's fairly clear to see that recruiting the best young Scottish talent over the last 10 years would have given us not only a settled squad, but a quality one relative to our current squad. Not every one would want to join us (Naismith joined Rangers ahead of us), but I'm fairly confident that Robertson, Russell, Fletcher and McCarthy would have chosen us over Hull, Derby, Burnley and Wigan respectively.

    Fletcher would have cost us £3m 6/7 years ago, think of the money he'd have effectively saved us on * strikers. Conversely, if we'd stuck with Marshall we'd not have had Boruc, Forster or Gordon, but is he far behind them?

    If we can snap up the best young players in the country and supplement it with players from abroad we'd have a very strong squad.
     
  18. og1

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    I think you are spot on Just Kieran in the two posts above. I wonder if this shift in policy is the managers or the boards? Since Ronny got here it certainly has been implemented more often but I do think that this policy change came from above.
     
  19. og1

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    Just to expand on my point above, I am not having a go at either manager or board here before anybody starts. I actually think it is smart thinking. Long term it means that we may be able to keep a squad together rather than gutting it, as someone has already said recently in this thread.
     
  20. VikingBhoy

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    I'm guessing this is what Ronny wants and that is one of the reasons he got the job. So both probably