The Celtic Trust - Fan Ownership/Representation

I don’t disagree with any of that, my main gripe is them lying about shady deals with the tribute act and their non backing of resolution 12. Are they happy to have that mob back because it sure looks like it, the fact that Lawwell has been in his position 18 years is a disgrace aswell imo.

 

Probably the most succesfull 18 years of our history though mate. There’s a lot I * hate about them but, honestly it’s probably the best we’ve been run in any 18 years of our history.

 

Yet it could still be a lot better, we have done just enough to stay ahead of that mob and it’s starting to show. For all the Edouard’s and Jullien type signings how much have we wasted on absolute *? That comes back to Lawwell having way too much say in things and not having a proper football structure in place. We now are in the situation of him and Bankier praising themselves for spending £35 million this season and look at the state of us.

 

What percentage is 22k?

 

Negligible still but it's going in the right direction

 

He’s not here for love of club either it’s his ego so he can say look I have majority in a huge club


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Negligible is a beautiful word!
You're in favour I assume? (That sounds accusatory, it's not just a query)

Anyone from the organisational echelons of the trust actually on here?

I don't think this is a runner, kinda like communism, great idea on paper but in practicality will never work.
Having said that, I might actually sign up. Unless my half arsed research throws up any odd red flags.

 

Think there’s approx. 95 million ordinary shares

 

I'm for it. Already signed up and in the process of proxying over my own held shares and a few family members.

It may seem pie-in-the-sky at the moment but I worry for our future if the fans don't get behind something like the Trust to part-own the PLC.

Our 2nd biggest shareholder at present is the Investment Firm Lindsell Train, who own 18.4% of the PLC.

Their ambitions for the club are purely financial and it seems they're banking on the possibility of our shares increasing exponentially in the long-term, if we secured EPL/Atlantic League entry or the likes.

"We believe that the world will never be bored of being informed or entertained and that sports franchises have the power to draw the largest number of eyeballs, making them amongst the most valuable of intellectual properties,” he says. “And their value is rising with the proliferation of distribution platforms - whether they be broadcasters, cable channels, social media or direct to consumer – needing quality content to capture the attention of their customers. Live sports content is perhaps the most valuable as it draws in loyal, large and engaged audiences of the type that advertisers most value. Moreover, football has a growing audience globally.”


The short term turmoil of Brendan Rodgers’ departure is but a blip. “We take a long-term view on our investments in football clubs and are not concerned by short-term performance on the field,” says Train. “We take comfort from the fact historic takeovers of sports franchises are valued at generally much higher levels than the current valuations of the sports holdings in our portfolios.

“However, there are few quoted football clubs to choose from globally. We have long-standing investments in Celtic and Juventus and two years ago started an investment in Manchester United (having held it before it was taken over by the Glazers). Celtic has a relatively small market cap and is tightly held so we look to take advantage of increasing our stake when shares are available.”

If we don't mobilise as a support at this point in our history, there's every chance we could be bound to move in whatever direction these groups who have zero emotional attachment to us see fit.

 

I remember this at the time. (Worryingly Mr Low of the Trust goes on to describe the co-founder of Lindsell Train as ‘a Celtic supporter of how many years who likes what he sees. He saw an opportunity to increase his shareholding and if somebody else’s shareholding became available he would probably buy more’ in the same article.)

Any idea why this holding isn’t outlined on the club’s website?

They have Bank of New York Nominees Limited listed second after Desmond’s company. Quick bit of research and there are no apparent links between them and Lindsell Train, so they both appear to have two independent shareholdings of similar size.

 

List of shareholders

Dermot Desmond - 32,772,073 = 34.7%
Lindsell Train Ltd - 17,557,438 = 18.6%
Christopher Trainer - 9,796,784 = 10.4%
James Keane - 5,909,847 = 6.26%
Thomas Allison - 3,357,505 = 3.56$
Banque Lombard etc - 1,105,936= 1.17%
Peter Lawwell - 356,000 = 0.38%
Hargreaves Lansdown - 154,000 = 0.16%
Investec Wealth - 118,000 = 0.13%
Jarvis Investment - 84,000 = 0.091%
I would say Celtic Trust has approx 0.023% with their 22,000 shares

Last year it was valued at £83.41m but now its valued at £70.23m

https://m.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/CELTIC-PLC-4002029/company/

 

The Bank of New York Nominees Limited is the "depository" for Lindsell Train, so they are one and the same holding.

Page 9 of this PDF confirms it: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIAxAK&usg=AOvVaw1WYzx4VKf6Q2cVA7PEd2Sk

 

Dear Members

We are having a follow-up meeting to the Open Meeting which was held on Saturday 5th December. This will allow us to report back on our meeting with Celtic in which we asked for responses to the issues raised by supporters at that meeting.

The follow-up meeting will be this Saturday, Saturday 19th December at 1pm. It is scheduled to last for no more than one hour.

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I'll probably dial in for this and put a few bullet points in this thread of what is talked about.

 

Cheers, that makes a lot more sense.

Was thrown by both being listed here

 

Excellent mate, very well put. The board and PL have guided us through some pretty difficult times and seen off that mob into liquidation and may do so with secco also. The thing I think that must be the most difficult thing for PL is to take his Celtic fan hat off when making the big decisions. Make no mistake he is a Celtic fan so when things are going wrong he must (I would think), be like us.

 

Absolutely agree, I have major issues with some stuff, but honestly they’ve done incredible.

And I still think they’re arrogant *.

 

The Cynic released a pod yesterday in conversation with the chair of the Spirit of Shankley ‘supporters union’. All very interesting. They seem to be very much involved in decision making processes at Liverpool and are consulted by the club on a regular basis. Particularly interesting given the nature of their owners, essentially venture capitalists with an interest in sports.

The model for their organisation doesn’t involve owning a single share.

 

I was going to type up a response to your post on the last page but I ended up leaving it.

A lot of what you say is true re the board and overseeing an era of dominance but for me the board of the beneficiaries of the stability brought about by McCann. In leaving us with a 60k seater stadia he gave us an ongoing financial advantage against the Hun of £5m+ per season in season tickets alone.

The good of the Lawwell era:

• The Strachan appointment which seen us continue to win Leagues and compete in Europe while reducing our unsustainable cost base
• The building of Lennoxtown training facility and a long overdue move from Barrowfield
• The significant improvement in Commercial deals: Merchandising, Sponsorship
• The foresight to move to a young player development, 'Buy low, Sell high' model
• Vast improvement to the area around the stadium with the Celtic Way

The bad:

• The complacency of the January 2009 transfer window aka 'The Willo Flood' window when we took our foot off the gas after Murray announced a fire sale at the opening of the window. Our failure to push home our advantage cost us the League and allowed them to get the following 2 as well
• The appointments of Mowbray and Deila
• The implementation of a 3-man signing panel (CEO, Chief Scout, Manager) where players are signed on majority verdict, even if the manager isn't keen
• A complete failure to challenge the SFA in their treating of the Huns for over a decade of cheating, that was known by SFA employees (infact they received EBTs at the time)
• A failure to build an infrastructure at the club that gives us continuity when the manager changes. Wholesale changes on almost every appointment, with Rodgers and Deila being particularly scathing in their assessments of our Sports Science departments
• Massive regression in our ability to compete in Europe, from UEFA Cup Finalists when he took over to regularly being embarrassed by teams on a fraction of our budget now in the qualifiers. Failure to qualify for the UCL more often than we do, despite having a free run of Leagues and the creation of the Champions Route
• The practice not seen anywhere else in World Football of selecting assistant managers for incoming managers

 

McCann gave them a good base to work with mate, they expanded it so we’ve turned into a winning juggernaut in Scotland. I agree with everything you’ve said, but they have overseen and maintained an incredible period of domincance.

Has there been anytime in our history, any 18 year period, that we’ve won as much as we have? They are by no means perfect, there is a lot wrong with them. Yet they have also done a * incredible job.