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The Board

Discussion in 'Celtic Chat' started by The Prof, Oct 26, 2020.

Discuss The Board in the Celtic Chat area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. The Prof Administrator Administrator

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    If the Board were to punt Lenny right now and bring in a new guy and it never worked out, they may be accused of acting too quickly, not giving Lenny a proper chance to turn things around.

    If the Board stick with Lenny in the hope things will get better, there is also the risk that things will only get worse, and by then it will be too late to save the season even with a new manager in place.

    Can we really sack a manager with only a possible 3 points difference in the League, or is it the manner of the performances that are the biggest concern ?

    Right now what do you think is the best option, or is it a case of which option has the least amount of risk attatched ?
     
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  2. Ciaran_67

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    I did not want Lennon as manager and think we should have parted company a while back. I also think this should be his final season. However, I personally think it is too late in the day to make a change now and we are going to need to ride it out and back him unless it gets significantly worse (that might only take 1/2 league defeats or draws before Xmas, mind you). It really is down to two key things: how risk averse are you? how important is 10IAR to you if it might hamper us a bit for next season?

    I've tried to look at both sides as critically as possible:

    Lennon pros: been involved in 5 league wins for us already; on course for a potential treble for season 2019/20; was able to have us performing well during certain sections of last season with largely the same squad

    Lennon cons: big-game issues in terms of results/performances; not showing tactical astuteness; team seems to have gone stale

    New manager pros: might get an immediate bounce from players; could be a better tactician and manager in general; begin building for the future/long-term

    New manager cons: will 100% ask for 'time' to implement a style - do we have time if we want 10IAR?; might not know the players well; can they deal with the pressure or is this season a poisoned chalice for a potentially decent manager looking at this job?

    It's all open to discussion because there are no guarantees here either way. Just trying to look at it from as balanced a perspective as possible.
     
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  3. ticketyboo0 Gold Member Gold Member

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    It's a no win for the board in the sense that someone will complain whatever they do.

    If they're going to take the plunge and get a new man in the it has to be a proven manager with great tactical ability and NOT another Lennon or Deila (or Kennedy).

    I don't know who is available, seen some people mentioning Howe but his Bournemouth team wer terrible in the end so jury's out on that as far as I'm concerned. Whoever it is, if they go down that route, needs to hit ground running cos this year is like no other.
     
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  4. PaulM1888 Gold Member Gold Member

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    The hysteria will subside in time, let’s be honest drawing to the sheep and getting beat off AC Milan aren’t the real issues. The panic/anger is off the back of the monkeys game. All entirely understandable given the magnitude of the season but calmer heads have to prevail and they will.

    He isn’t going to be sacked and nor should he be. He turned it around for 9 and he must be given every opportunity to do so for 10. Absolutely nothing is lost domestically and with a step back the baying pitchfork crowd would see that.
     
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  5. Antz1888

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    Their is panic because the performances have been absolutely dross bar the Hibs game. Another disaster in Europe against Ferencvaros similar to Cluj last year, highlights that lessons haven’t been learned.

    The shape is all wrong, their are no patterns of play and the players don’t seem to be performing for him. Square pegs in round holes has been the norm, while players get picked regardless of form.

    We have been far to passive all season, struggling attacking wise and been shocking defensively. Late winners have papered over the cracks.

    Making that statement after the Ferenvaros game probably lost him a chunk of the dressing room, and to what gain considering he made an embarrassing climb down days later.

    There are clear issues and people need to stop burying their heads in the sand.

    When Neil Lennon leaves us, he will probably struggle to get another job and that says a lot.
     
  6. Officer Doofy Come to me, human man Gold Member

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    I'd punt him immediately and get a new manager in. Never wanted him when he was given the job permanently because I simply didn't rate him as a manager, and nothing he's done in the last 18 months has changed my mind.

    It's not just the last week. It's the recurring pattern of picking wrong starting XI's in big matches, failing to make changes to positively impact the game in those matches, and his inability to learn from his mistakes - mainly down to the fact that, again, he isn't a good manager at this level.

    The last week has been miserable, but since he's returned he's overseen two failed CL qualifying campaigns - losing at home to Cluj and Ferenvcaros in them. He's seen us be outplayed by the huns in the last 3 derbies, albeit Forster and Morelos' lack of composure saw us avoid a humping in the cup final and somehow win it.

    Of course he's had some great results - the Lazio games being the obvious ones - but he then followed that up by getting knocked out by Copenhagen, in our best chance to go fairly deep in Europe since 2003. The regression since last season is staggering, and the only first team player we've lost since then is our keeper. The team looks absolutely devoid of any confidence and creativity. Our defence is a shambles. I could go on.

    I don't really understand this "well he turned it around last season" argument. We had won 11 games in a row in the league before losing against the huns, which put them what, 2 points behind with a game in hand? We came back after the break and played some good football and dished out some humpings, but we never exactly had much to turn around. The huns utterly collapsed immediately which swung the momentum back in our favour. Lennon hasn't been in this position since he returned.

    Obviously I pray he turns it around if he does stay, but I have little faith in him.
     
  7. bkk bhoy

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    Nothing to stop the board bringing in a defensive coach.. Lenny is not qualified in that area and if he doesnt like it then he can walk

    Lenny brought in a psychologist but unless he is also a tactician then not much point.

    The board should have gave him a warning about the dire displays, lack of tempo, passion etc about 2 months ago

    Problem with our club is we let things drift for too long.. signings take for ever, Delia was clearly out of his depth for a long period.

    If Lenny doesnt want to single out individuals or criticize the team then why not hire big Sutton for a few weeks.. pretty sure he will tell them the truth right to their faces
     
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  8. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    It's a good question Prof.

    In the calendar year of 2020 we have collected 54 points from an available 63. In that sense it could be argued that it's way overboard to be calling for the manager's head.

    On the other hand though it's undeniable that the first 3 months of this season have been pretty horrific on and off the park.

    Does Bolingoli go on his jaunt with a manager he respects?

    Does Griffiths fail to adhere to a tailored training plan while in lockdown for a manager he respects?

    The board did more or less everything they could in the summer to back Lennon. £13m of transfer fees with nothing coming in, at a time when we're losing £400k+ per week, as per the most recent financials. That is no mean feat.

    For them to make such an investment and be served up a shambolic Champions League exit to a very beatable side, through no strikers being played when we have 4 on the books and 2 out on loan.

    For us to be effectively 1/3rd of the way into the League and only have a few sporadic good performances to point to.

    In the main it has been utterly drab. Single goal victories against Sarajevo, Riga, Dundee United, St Mirren, Livingston and 2 injury time goals v St Johnstone have papered over the cracks somewhat.

    Yes, results are the be all and end all; but having seen us toil in those games, you would hope tweaks would be made to jazz up future performances. If they have attempted them, then they evidently haven't worked.

    The defence is leaking goals and we're creating virtually nothing in games, never mind not scoring many.

    If I'm on the board then I'm paying more credence to those warning signs than I am last year's purple patch after Christmas. The squad is different, the pressure is different, the schedule is more demanding and the mood is completely different.

    Lennon has to get this team going all out for him, performing much, much better and winning again. If he can't show that over the next few games then we need to be looking elsewhere.
     
  9. CookieMonster Geez yer cookies Gold Member

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    He wont be sacked unless the season turns into a disaster, which is probably only a few more bad results given our current form.

    I still think we’ll win the league especially with more players coming back and changing the system, he needs to work to get our form back and get some confidence back in the team.

    I think no matter what happens he’ll be gone at the end of the season. Most likely Kennedy will take over after that as the board goes back to a tight budget.
     
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  10. Gyp Rosetti Gold Member

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    Another pertinent question is how long do they give it if these performances and results continue? I love Lennon and he is a club legend always will be, but I can’t see him turning this around and I personally think he looks ill.
     
  11. Sonic Reducer Gold Member Gold Member

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    Punt the board.
     
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  12. honda Gold Member Gold Member

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    Hes gonna lift the 10 and you lot are panicking. Just wait. First we shall pump the diddy team on thursday then onto the semi.
     
  13. jambo_cfc

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    good point but i think you could also ask “ does forster come back for someone else “ think theres more to the forster situation.
     
  14. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    Manner of performances, along with the formations and setup and lack of motivation.
    Then we look at the results in all the key matches this season so far.

    The board are always going to have to balance the dilemma of go now, or hold on.
    If there was fans in the stands, the noise right now would have already sealed the deal.

    The board need to start looking at fan forums, listen to what we are saying in the few ways we can use to get it across.



    For me though, much like the transfer window, I won't blame the board of they sack Lennon and bringing in someone of a reasonable standing in the game.
    If we do that and still drop the league, I will be gutted, but I won't blame the board for trying.

    I will blame them though for persisting with the status quo and what looks like taking the cheaper and coward way out of this.

    Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
     
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  15. Marty McFly Whoa, this is heavy Gold Member

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    Isn't this another Lenny thread? :fear:


    The Board shouldn't be sacking anyone right now imo. But it's a difficult one as people have said, how long do you leave it if things don't improve?

    I believe we have the players to turn it around, I don't think that's in question, I saw spells at Pittodrie that reminded me we have it in us. But that's just it, I think that was down to the players rather than anything else. The close victories and late goals we have came up with this season have came from the odd player or two wanting it rather than a collective team effort of manager, coaches and players. That's just what it feels like anyway.

    That's maybe stating the obvious, players score the goals etc, but I'm not "feeling" it with Lennon. The Board will stick by their man, I'm certain of that but I'm finding it impossible to answer the what happens, when does it happen and who is the answer, from the OP. Too many ifs and buts.
     
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  16. Senna s1979 Gold Member Gold Member

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    At this time we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t.
    The huns having their * together at this time is exasperating the situation. When they start to drop points on a more regular basis it won’t scare the bejesus out of most of us (some * will never be happy).

    My biggest worry is sacking Lennon will have us being managed by Kennedy whether that be for the rest of the season or until we appoint a manager. And I don’t hold out much hope for us getting a decent one at this time in a season.
    Some of the names that were bandied about on here in the summer are having even worse seasons than Lennon. Is it better to stick than twist?
    The grass isn’t always greener.
     
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  17. Marty McFly Whoa, this is heavy Gold Member

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    Another thing, when people say "the next few games" with regards to Lennon, what do they mean? How much value is the cup game? Could it be a catalyst either way, win or lose?

    We only have 2 league games in our next 6 games. Where is the cut off and do the Board give Lennon some slack for Euro games...


    Screenshot_20201027_094145.jpg
     
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  18. Captain Brown Gold Member Gold Member

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    I would like to see Lennon bring in someone on his own to help him. He was given JK and he may be good at what he does but I feel a manager always needs to pick his own backroom staff. Especially his assistant. I am not saying we sack Kennedy either.
     
  19. Seán Mac D Gold Member Gold Member

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    Personally I couldn't care less about Europe this season. Especially with no fans there, it just seems like glorified friendlies that are a hindrance to us.

    For me the few games that he must win are the Cup Semi Final and the Easter Road & Fir Park League games. Fail to do that and he has to go.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
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  20. Sgt Neppers*

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    I'll be honest to say I didn't want him back for a second spell, but gave him the chance as I would anyone associated with the club. If you look back at his second spell in charge, there is good and bad. Can't say he's been utterly *. That's not true or fair. But a slow steady decline, which is now accelerating.

    To answer the question, it is better to seize the moment (replace him) than hope in previous experiences that things can be changed. Football constantly evolves. Lennon hasn't, certainly not to keep up with Celtics progression. If you look back since his time in charge, he has had a good squad. This season it is the best he has had in both spells at the club. But there is no progression within in the squad. It's been a slow steady decline in strategy with hoping talent will beat anything in front of you. This season there should high motivation with what's at stake, but little evidence of that. Not all on Lenny but it's obvious that he lacks something from listening and watching him and the players aren't responding to him. Marry this to baffling, bewildering interviews, usage of squad and youngsters, stunting their growth.

    I would replace him. It's better to be proactive and control what is still a decent position with bags of potential to achieve a lot, than be reactive and make decisions based on a perilous/emergency like situation.

    Now is a chance to put in a management team, chosen by the new guy, where he has chosen his own staff. Not off cuts of previous regimes and random choices as coaches. This has to have started already as there will undoubtedly be changes to the squad regardless if we achieve the 10 or not. Budgets need adjusted and with Covid probably even more so. The change needs to be done with the next 5 years in mind. Not just a reactive, knee * approach with a sentimental touch to achieve the 10 as I think Pete did in the reappointment of Lennon.

    Lennons status is secure with the club. He has given his all on and of the park, probably more than anyone and it shows. We love him for it and wish him all the best, but his time as a manager, certainly at the top level, is done. The board also have a legacy and reputation to ensure also. Which is why I think, any more slip ups domestically and he's gone.
     
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