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The 2016 Scottish Elections Thread

Discussion in 'TalkCeltic Pub' started by Dáibhí, Mar 2, 2016.

Discuss The 2016 Scottish Elections Thread in the TalkCeltic Pub area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Intellectually Absurd Gold Member Gold Member

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    Aye, because that's exactly what happens at universities and that's what people study.

    I've yet to see any silly degree offered in Scotland - you get a few in England but when I say a few I really mean it.

    Of course 50% is silly, I imagine Blair wanted that figure not because he's a lovely chap that cares about the education of the nation but because the state would make a pretty penny, as they brought in widespread tuition fees.

    University provides so much more than a degree. The concept of learning and bettering yourself is reason enough for it to be worthwhile. Engaging with a wide diverse group of people, integrating with many cultures, hearing different opinions, absorbing knowledge from intelligent professors, learning to engage with others, gaining confidence. It helps folk come out their shell, make friends and develop new skills and interests they never knew they had.

    If the student then goes on to a decent, well paying job then they will be paying their taxes anyway and paying back into the system.

    As I said, better educated societies have better economies, Britain has been moving to a service based economy since Thatcher anyway - as have most western nations, therefore an educated peoples is key.

    Learning a trade is commendable but they don't all get paid well. There is a romanticised notion about trades. There isn't even enough business for mass trade employment, seeing as China/India can have people do the same work for pennies.
     
  2. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    Ill be honest, never used the NHS to any great length.

    I honestly think I can count on one hand how many times ive been to the hospital or doctors. 1. When I fractured my wrist as a 9 year old 2. When I thought I broke a leg, went for an xray, nothing damaged. 3. When I chipped a bone in my knee, went to the doc, she had a look nd said it was fine.

    Honestly think thats it, all while at school age and barely used any services.

    Well, I wear specs as well, so that probably counts? Opticins covered by the NHS?

    Anyway my point is, I and many others genuienly barely use the service, and the odd time ive caved in to the need of paracetamol, ive went to the shop and bought some for less than a quid.

    I honestly had no idea that you could get prescribed for something like that off a doc, let alone get it for free.

    Surely, stuff like that should not be free? I would have thought itd make sense to be only giving free prescription to people needing specialised medication?
    Or medication over £10 would make sense? Because if folk are using it for paracetamol then that is taking the *.

    Im all for free prescription, but maybe we just need to * control what is given for free here. And spread that extra money across the NHS for better use else where.

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  3. Markybhoy

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    I tend to agree with you that stuff like paracetamol and ibubprofen shouldn't be prescribed but then I'm not a doctor so I can't really say if there are times where it is valid to prescribe it. Doctors would probably tell you there is.

    My worry is that once you start chipping away at what can be prescribed and what can't, where does the line get drawn? As I say, I don't disagree with you on an ideological level but if the prescribing of these OTC painkillers was to be stopped I would be looking for assurances that it wasn't going to be the tip of a large iceberg.
     
  4. muffitO'tea

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    It is ridiculous what you can get prescribed. One of my friends got calpol when their kid had a fever and anti-sickness tablets when she was pregnant too.
    They're not even poor and both are in full time well paying jobs.

    I kept my mouth shut but i was internally raging when they told me haha
     
  5. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    Its a line that would need to be addressed, of course.

    The best benefit to the whole idea of free prescription is that everyone has access to what they need - its a money thing. So perhaps just a general anything under a tenner/fiver is not to be prescribed for free?
    I mean, unless you've got serious dosabilities/life threatening illness, surely the odd time you go to the doc and need medication to overcome an issue that costs a fiver, you are able to afford that?
    Could also stop some folk who abuse the doctors generally going there for every daft little headache etc.

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  6. TheHolyGoalie

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    I've been thinking about this recently.

    I went to a average/poor school according to the league tables, only 38% of pupils achieved 1 Higher. Compare that to St Aloysios (which is a fee paying independent school) a few miles down the road in the town, their Higher achievement rate is something like 95%, most of them are at A and B level too.

    Is it just a matter of money? Quality of teachers? I tend to think it has a lot to do with the home life of a lot of kids and the ambitions they have instilled in them by their parents.
     
  7. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    Yer kiddin?
    I honestly wouldnt even think to go to the docs with a * cold. Id just buy medicine in the shop.

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  8. wulliebad

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    Well the tory vote....that's not a wind up...that's just a union loving *.....yes we know who you are.:smiley-laughing002:
     
  9. wulliebad

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    There was something about this in a paper or on the news orrrrrr during one of the anti snp shows....i forget.
    But....they was saying if you buy a pain killer you can go into any of the big shops and buy 12 of them for around 16p....when the NHS gives you some it costs the NHS and the tax payer...around £10...now the question we should be asking is why the * is the NHS being charged £10 for something a shop buys for less than 16p.

    free market is all fine and good but that is a * crime and who ever is agreeing to them prices needs sacking and jailed.
     
  10. Intellectually Absurd Gold Member Gold Member

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    I think about it myself too. It really perplexes me and is certainly a problem only someone well above my intelligence can solve.

    In terms of the fee paying schools it probably is quality education. My modern studies teachers was educated at a private school (St Columbas in Kilmacolm) which is one of the best performing schools in the country. He said the class sizes were tiny and the teachers had loads of one on one time with the pupils which helped - alot. It's probably the same across the board.

    Public schools I have no idea. There is quite clearly a link though between the rich and poor and educational attainment levels. Alot of it will be to do with the stereotypical stuff: wealthier people are more educated and driven - success breeds success. Their parents will instill discipline into them from a young age, promoting educating, spending quality time with them etc etc.

    Unfortunately those in the poorest home become disassociated with the long-term investment of education. You have to plant the seeds early, commit (both parent and child) and eventually it will pay off. The poorest homes though probably just aren't as committed and disciplines and will become disillusioned - short-term benefits before long-term goals, sadly.

    It varies though. I mean my school was Inverclyde - not the most affluent area but we had our nice parts and poor parts. The school I went to comes first in terms of 5 (34%) or more highers second for 1 (70%) and 3 (53%). It's a real mixed bag my school - all the schools in Inverclyde were. You have wealthy folk, poor folk, smart, dumb, crazy *, wee quiet folk. Our head teacher was very determined though, always coming up with new initiatives. The teachers great and the Modern Studies teacher I was on about - one of the best performing departments in the school, his was the best social studies department in terms of attainment in Inverclyde.

    Teacher really matter. But then - is that not just luck, a lottery where teachers are assigned?

    However.....the historically best performing school in Inverclyde and the one which ranks first for 1 and 3 highers is also commonly referred to as the 'posh school'. Many of its student's come from the west end and Gourock/Inverkip/Largs - wealthier areas, nice cars and houses etc. :smiley-laughing002:
     
  11. Markybhoy

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    I'm not sure that applying a simple methodology like 'anything under a tenner won't be prescribed' would work.

    Drugs for depression and anxiety for example are probably quite cheap to the NHS(I know Valium is anyway) but they tend to be drugs that are needed regularly and for prolonged periods of time. I would also imagine that as a percentage it would be the poorer people in society who are most reliant on these drugs and who would therefore be least able to pay. Things like that would have to be looked at.

    Maybe a better approach would be to say that anyone who needs OTC medication for a long term condition is entitled to have it prescribed but people looking for medication for toothache or a cold(or something similar) are not? That seems a bit fairer. The idea of someone going to the doctor and getting prescribed tablets for a cold does even bother me I must admit. :smiley-laughing002: Like yourself, I wouldn't even think of going to a doctor with that.
     
  12. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    Couldn't tell you the cost of stuff like valium etc. But yeah, if its a long term issue for folk, rightly so have it prescribed as a ongoing medical conditon. But yeah, folk in for a cold should be told to leave it.

    If anything, save the NHS money, time and resources. Much more a doctor can be doing rather than checking someone off with a flu and prescribing cough medicine or something.

    No wonder you hear some stories of doctors not caring etc when they have to deal with that stuff.

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  13. Drakhan Nac Mac Feegle Gold Member

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    Not voting for 2 reasons,
    1) Cant vote
    2) No * party in that list. :97:
     
  14. Tim-Time 1888 Always look on the bright side of Life Gold Member

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    TonyStarkCSC & muffitO'tea if you aren't careful there will be tory accusations shortly :smiley-laughing002: Thankfully its just plain old fashioned common sense. The system is needing looked at and quickly or it will be *.


    If you are meaning who I think you are, nah I don't think he would vote them, even as a wind up, he would likely stick with labour. Although they are a union party as well , they just hide it :smiley-laughing002:

    Wullie worrying about why the NHS is charged £10 (if correct) for headache pills isn't the main issue really. Wasting time and, no doubt, more resources investigating that would be time consuming and financially pointless when the simplest way to address it is to do what Davidson has said - people who can afford prescriptions should pay for them, freeing up money to be better used elsewhere. Doing this combined with stopping prescribing virtually every minor ailment drug known to man will save a fortune that can be diverted elsewhere, as I said earlier, in the NHS.
    Calpol ffs they will be handing out plasters next :31:
     
  15. Markybhoy

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    The thing I find frustrating when I hear stories of people being prescribed OTC drugs is when you hear stories on the news of people being refused treatments for more serious conditions because the drugs are "too expensive" for the NHS to buy. That just seems wrong. I have no idea if cutting out the prescribing of OTC medications would make any of these more expensive drugs more widely available but the principle seems wrong.

    Mind you, I think the idea of any drug being "too expensive" is deplorable. To think that there are people sitting out there with serious illnesses that could be cured by treatments that exist but they are denied them because some private company wants to rip off the NHS to increase shareholders profit is pretty sickening. I'd rather to see the pharmaceutical industry and the NHS working in tandem for the common good of all our health.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2016
  16. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    See, this may sound bad to some, but why should someone's income dictate if they should get the same benefits as others im regards to this sort of thing? We all pay the same taxes etc, and because someone has managed to work their way to a better wage, they in turn get punished for it?

    Same goes for higher rates of tax for people who earn more, I understand the needs etc, but it almost feels like a punishment if I was to evee manage to work myself in to a 40+k job tp get taxed more for the privilege. But ill not get anything more back from it?
    Should be. Flat rate tax for all, and if we tackled the issue of big corporates avoiding tax, we wouldnt need to chase the honest workers.

    That to me defeats the point of free prescription then, surely it is there to make the stuff available? And if its because the NHS is getting charged 10quid a pop for some painkillers, then there is an issue with that, as we agree to.


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  17. Intellectually Absurd Gold Member Gold Member

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    I'm sure I read somewhere that the cost of implementing means testing and administration of prescription charges, rendered it futile.

    In England (widely available statistics, hence why I'm using them), they will raise roughly £450m a year in prescription charges BUT the NHS as a whole (including Scotland) spends £13.3bn on medicines. Therefore, prescription charges represent a tiny fraction of the costs, really.

    What does need re-examined is issuing of OTC drugs as you all say. Painkillers and paratemol, pennies to buy but costing the NHS in England £523m combined. Drug wastage costs £150m a year. Missed GP appointments cost £162m; Hospital appointments a staggering £750m a year.

    £1.585 billion * up the wall unnecessarily.
     
  18. Drakhan Nac Mac Feegle Gold Member

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    In Scotland the costs for medicines alone are £1,562,100,000 out of a total NHS costs of £10,354,596,000
     
  19. Tim-Time 1888 Always look on the bright side of Life Gold Member

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    While I do generally agree with what you say and often get * off when I see/read comments saying 'tax the rich/high earners' as they can afford it however in the case of the NHS I am happy to forgo free prescriptions. Given what I earn there is no way I should get any prescription I need free. However I do and will insist on the resources being given to the NHS being used sensibly and that is why I think this proposal from Davidson is a good idea and certainly worthy of looking into more deeply.

    While not wanting to get into the whole flat rate of tax debate, you would get my vote however its just not viable really given what we all expect the 'state' to provide. Also the current Government, and previous coalition, has/had cracked down heavily on tax evasion, more so than labour ever bothered to do, avoidance is a different matter. Its also worth remembering the SNP are on record as saying they would have lowered tax rates for companies, so I aint going to have much of a go over this as that would be hypocritical of me.
     
  20. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    I love when other threads are created because of posts in others. More so when it creates more ideas to come back to here.

    So in the NHS thread paperwork etc got mentioned, just how much paperwork, legal bullshit, health and safety regulations etc that are all way over the top effectively killing our work places and costing the country a * fortune?

    I was thinking this earlier in regards to the steel industry, its cheaper to import steal from * China, for lots of reasons, but funnily enough some of it is because we have made the cost of doing things here so expensive with so much bullahit paper work that takes time and man power away from actually just doing * jobs. But funnily we are happy to buy steel from a country that has very little of the same regulations that we hold our own to - yet we are again punished in turn with lost jobs etc.

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