Scotland set to legally recognise third gender

Discussion in 'TalkCeltic Pub' started by Minty, Nov 24, 2018.

Discuss Scotland set to legally recognise third gender in the TalkCeltic Pub area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Gyp Rosetti Gold Member Gold Member

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    This is a very valid point, what if people start wanting to be recognised as a different race? As I’ve said people can be what the * they like and I couldn’t give a *, what I’m bothered by is the Scottish governments involvement when there are far more pressing issues. This seems like a look at us we are progressive point scoring issue with them.
     
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  2. Minty 2 x BOTB winner Gold Member

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    Some will, some won’t. There are a huge range of reasons they might not, such as the appropriate help not being available to them, maybe.
     
  3. PaulM1888 Gold Member Gold Member

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    So why doesn’t society create the help for them rather than pandering to people who have problems? Completely backwards.

    If your argument was we need to help people who don’t see themselves as male or female I would be with you on that 100%.
     
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  4. Briggs_bhoy

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    Agree with this, a few weeks ago they were announcing the introduction of LGBT education in Scottish schools. Been numerous reports over the years of pupils only having basic reading and writing skills or skills which are expected of someone much younger in Scotland. Also heard there has been issues with the curriculum for excellence in administering the course, content and teachers getting there heads round the whole thing. Think they should focus more on this right now.
     
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  5. Minty 2 x BOTB winner Gold Member

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    I think we’re both thinking about completely different solutions tbh.
     
  6. Gyp Rosetti Gold Member Gold Member

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    Surely help identifying their issues is still help, we cannot as a society just accommodate every issue people have and start to recognise it. Where does it stop? Do we start recognising people who are attracted to children aswell or people that want to pump their sister. This is a tiny percentage of our population that are being pandered to imo.
     
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  7. Minty 2 x BOTB winner Gold Member

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    No, I don’t think everyone with any sort of issue should be accommodated. That’s why I think it’s worth discussing.

    Yeah it’s a tiny amount of people but that doesn’t make them any less valid
     
  8. Gyp Rosetti Gold Member Gold Member

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    Ok we have some middle ground, do you agree the Scottish government have far more pressing issues? Though i will say again if people want to identify as a bus stop then that’s up to them.
     
  9. Minty 2 x BOTB winner Gold Member

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    Aye of course there are much more pressing issues. I don’t think this is going to divert focus too much though.
     
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  10. Gyp Rosetti Gold Member Gold Member

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    So it’s basically a token gesture.
     
  11. Minty 2 x BOTB winner Gold Member

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    Maybe to you it is, I doubt it will be to people who identify that way.
     
  12. .Zander. Gold Member Gold Member

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    No and nor did I suggest it should :50:
     
  13. Gyp Rosetti Gold Member Gold Member

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    So you are labelling me now. That’s a bit hypocritical is it not. I have already stated i accept people can identify as they wish. But my gripe is the government pushing this as the new norm.
     
  14. molloy1888

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    I'm not especially interested in a debate and I respect you have your opinion and I'm most likely not going to change but I do take exception to a few things you have said.

    Your statement is well written and I do feel you make some good points but I also feel there is certain lack of cohesion in your argument. I agree that our lives are comparably easier than those in war torn or famine struck countries but the human reaction to suffering is a physiological one and one relative to our own circumstance. People suffer all over the world and in every environment and setting; it isn't fair to equate circumstances as suffering isn't graded on a scale - it simply is. I'm not entirely brushed up on my philosophy so this maybe be wrong but I think it's an argumental fallacy called false equivalency; apologies if i'm mistaken.

    Generally speaking, in a societal sense we don't have some of the large problems that less fortunate countries have like famine, war, human rights issues, oppression etc and I am personally of the opinion that it is important for us to be grateful for that but in a sense it would be wrong of us to ignore the issues that we as a society do face - gender assignation being one of them and something that affects a very significant proportion of the country, a significant enough number for us to be even having this discussion.

    Also, for someone else that replied I'd like to add that as a nation of 5+million people we are capable of driving more than one initiative at a time. Racism bad. Bigotry bad. Innumerable other things are also bad. We are lucky to have people, individuals, groups tackling problems on all fronts, I can only see that as a good think it''s a good thing.

    I think there is another clash of perspective or maybe just a cognitive oversight (which we are all capable of :) ) in your argument when you mention
    "they would have to be challenged by the entire scientific community and all vaguely intelligent humans."
    but then say
    "This is, was and will be a fact. A fact that can’t or won’t be changed by further study or evidence. "

    As I'm sure you are aware that "study" and "evidence" is an important aspect of the scientific method - arguably the most important aspect. In a sense you are at odds with you own argument here - if "studies" and "evidence" produced under the scientific method show that gender isn't necessarily binary then by definition it would be an extension of the scientific community.
    Although I'm not sure what yours thoughts are on the idea of the scientific community as a singular entity as with most subjects - especially philosophical discussions like how we relate to ourselves - there isn't an absolute consensus and probably will never be.

    The facts vs opinions thing is a bit murky as well. I do agree but I think a lot of what people feel are "facts" are ultimately deeply held beliefs that come out as "facts" but are really closer to opinions - once again an argument for the philosophers amongst us.
    For instance you believe in there being two genders because it is the way you have always know it to be but did you know that over the course of human, in various societies there have been more than two genders - in fact (and i'm using that word cautiously! ha ha) the Native American tribes had 5 genders. To them, 5 genders would have been "fact" but to you 2 is "fact" - do you see how "fact"s suddenly become something closer to opinion? :)
    It is a fact that you have been raised to think there are 2 genders as it is a fact that Native Americans thought there were 5 and it may be, that going forward, it will be a fact that the next generation think there is more than 2 genders. We'll see I suppose.

    It is a phenomena that appears throughout nature - plants change *, many species of fish change gender, snakes cross-dress, birds have males that resemble females with female plumage and exhibit female behaviour but would be considered male. The argument being that from a biological perspective it is not behaviour unique to human beings.

    I respect what you are saying and I understand why you think the way you do but it is important to show that there is simply much more to the argument than the surface superficiality. We don't have the answers and we may never - I believe all we can do is have a healthy respect for the things and people we don't understand and do what we can to learn a little.

    FYI, I have no horse in this race (I'm a guy about to get married to his Gf) but trying to understand what people and in this instance gender non-binary/lgbtq/gender fluid motivations are and what they are experience goes a long way to dealing with the separation and discomfort created when we feel we can't relate to why and what the * is going on.

    That and ignoring the very vocal, ideological fanatics that only want to fight, haha.

    All the best!

    edited for semantics pedantics ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  15. Gyp Rosetti Gold Member Gold Member

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    They aren’t trans though.
     
  16. M 67 Gold Member Gold Member

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    Be a matter of time before you get age-fluidity, race-fluidity. I now identify as a 92 year old trans black dwarf and if you don't accept this then you're a bigot and deserve to be locked up! Attention seeking numpties
     
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  17. molloy1888

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    edited it just for you :50:
     
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  18. Clint Eastwood The Good Bad and Ugly of TC

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    Transracial is actually a thing already. :56:
     
  19. M 67 Gold Member Gold Member

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    Aye I didn’t mean mixed race lol.
     
  20. Clint Eastwood The Good Bad and Ugly of TC

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    Anyways, time for some happy news.

    [​IMG]
     
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