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Neil Lennon

Discussion in 'Ex Players' started by romeo9535, Apr 17, 2016.

Discuss Neil Lennon in the Ex Players area at TalkCeltic.net.

  1. Henrik 07 Gold Member Gold Member

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    Social media age everyone moans online these days.


















    Just my own view here and something I’ve noticed happening more.


    We’ve been used to Domination some folk canny deal with it.
     
    Liam Scales and moravcik1888 like this.
  2. SuperZidane

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    Agree completely. There are a few who stoop to personal insults against Lennon which is despicable - this is about football ability and nothing else. To be fair, there a couple of pro Lennon posters on here who are incapable of intelligent debate and immediately resort to personal abuse against anyone who dares to question Lennon's ability - even on a professional level.

    I honestly think that the club has regressed under Lennon (the "performance" against Rangers was shameful). The bookies made Rangers odd-on to win the league after that. I think that, unless Rangers have a financial collapse, they will win the league. I don't see any evidence that Lennon can turn this around.

    I'm not interested in proving anyone wrong. If I'm right - I don't see it as a triumph - I'll just be angry at DD/PL/NL. If I'm wrong - I'll be delighted and be happy to come on here and eat humble pie.

    I think most of those who (like me), think we need to look at making a change will be very happy to be proved wrong.

    I honestly think there are very few who would stoop to wanting Celtic to lose to be proved "right".

    As for those who resort to personal abuse of Lennon and/or other fans. They're not worth worrying about.
     
  3. King of Kings

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    40 year old history is entirely irrelevant when it comes to assessing our chances of beating a team today.

    Nottingham Forrest and Villa were fighting amongst the best team in England 40 years ago. It has absolutely no bearing on their results this season.
     
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  4. King of Kings

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    The deeply flawed line or argument is not someone saying we should be expecting to beat a side who have significantly less financial muscle and stature than we do, it’s thinking that results 40 years ago have an impact on our chances today.

    Following the exact same line of reasoning, Ferencvaros hadn’t qualified for the CL in 25 years when they played us. For context,
    that’s longer ago than the last time Scotland played in a major tournament, which also has absolutely no bearing on how Scotland should do in any modern qualification campaign.
     
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  5. Wee Baldy

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    I think we all want what's best for our club and, quite rightly, we can criticise the players, the board and the manager if we believe somethings wrong. So, I think we can all agree that things have been wrong since the start of the season and that's why there has been comment's re our manager which, in my opinion, has went too far. He is one of us, has suffered both on the park and off the park for being one of us. He therefore deserves some respect and not the venomous comments that sadly have been made against him.
     
  6. Henrik 07 Gold Member Gold Member

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    CELTIC are ready to charter more private planes for their stars to avoid even more Covid carnage.

    Hoops boss Neil Lennon admits he’s dreading the upcoming break as he fears it could wreck his ten-in-a-row plans.


    Lennon was denied the services of Odsonne Edouard, Ryan Christie, Hatem Elhamed and Nir Bitton amid Covid-19 chaos during the last round of Euro play-offs and Nations League games.

    With Christie, Callum McGregor and Greg Taylor set to be involved in Scotland’s play-off final with Serbia and half of his squad also away next week, he’s already making contingency plans.


    The Parkhead club arranged a private jet for £5million keeper Vasilis Barkas last month after Greece’s Nations League clash with Kosovo.

    Lennon said: “With Barkas, they were going to shut the airport in Greece because they had a strike over there, and we got him back on a private plane.


    It’s not ideal, but it’s something we can look at.

    “It’s a big undertaking when you’ve got maybe 15 or 16 players away, but we desperately want to avoid a repeat of what happened the last time.
    “It’s a major concern when they go away again.

    We’ve been pretty stringent inside our own bubble and have had no positive tests for a long, long time.”

    Celtic plan to hold talks with the respective nations of their international players regarding alternative travel arrangements.

    Lennon said: “It’s difficult. We can speak with the associations and say, ‘can you give us a bit of leeway here?’.

    Whether that falls on deaf ears is another thing but there’s no doubt that the damage that was done, losing four players, through no fault of our own was difficult to take.

    Slowly but surely we are getting them back but you can see even in the throes of the game they are not fully match fit.

    “Maybe the virus can take more out of you than you first thought.

    “Bitton did fine for half an hour the other night, Odsonne came through it okay, so hopefully these boys and Ryan, who had two weeks in a room on his own, will get stronger as we go along.”

    All three are in the squad to face Aberdeen at Hampden this afternoon although Celtic will be without Kristoffer Ajer for the foreseeable future.

    The Norwegian limped out of Thursday’s 2-2 draw with Lille in the Europa League.


    Lennon said: “We haven’t got clarity on the extent of the injury. He’s to go for a scan so we’ll know more when we get the results back.

    “I think it’s safe to say he won’t play on Sunday. He just felt something go in his groin and he couldn’t continue.

    “He was very stiff on the plane on the way back. We won’t be able to determine how long he’s out for until we get the scan results.

    “He’s been playing really well. I just think it’s a culmination of a lot of games, a bit of muscle fatigue in there.”


    Long-term absentee James Forrest will go under the knife this week in a bid to fix his broken ankle.

    Lennon added: “He requires surgery, so that will hopefully take place next week and get that tidied up but he’ll be out for a period of time.

    “I don’t know how long, it will depend on how successful the surgery is. It’s a stress fracture in the ankle.”
     
  7. Avatar Daizen The Last Hunskelper Gold Member

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    Eire Force 1 :shamrock:
     
  8. Gyp Rosetti Gold Member

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    I hope they leave the Parkhead lights on like we did for the Nazis. :fear:
     
  9. Avatar Daizen The Last Hunskelper Gold Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. Henrik 07 Gold Member Gold Member

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    Take me up up and away.
     
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  11. Random Review

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    Would you please pay me the courtesy of actually reading what I'm arguing rather than responding to what you think I'm saying from a quick read. We all do this from time to time, but you are consistently doing it and it's getting on my nerves. I have never said that decades ago is a benchmark. Here is a bullet point version of what I'm actually saying to save you rereading a bunch of posts.

    1) You claim that we should expect to beat sides like Cluj and Ferencvaros.
    2) You are basing that claim on an idea in your head about what we have a right to expect.
    3) When we test that idea against the only thing we can be certain of- what has actually happened when we have played these games- the results on average contradict your claim that we there should be an expectation of beating these sides.
    4) Far from being irrelevant, the results we have already had are actually the only certain reality we have to test your ideas against.
    5) In the long term, I totally agree we should try to get back to an era when the area around Glasgow was producing enough great players, including some world-class players, to put a formidable team together. I hope you'll agree that this is not within the gift of Neil Lennon or even Celtic alone.
    6) In the medium term, we need to aim to be reaching the level of, say, Porto or Ajax. Since Congerton (thankfully) wasn't put in charge of our academy at any point, that only means rebuilding our entire scouting network. I think if you compare this summer to last summer, we can see that real progress has been made, but it will still take time.
     
  12. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    Dude, you are the one bringing up "4 decades ago" please, tell the rest of us (because I am not the only one) what relevance 4 decades ago has on this season?

    1+2) same point, different wording. Yes, 100% we should expect to beat sides like Cluj, Ferencvaros, Sarajevo, Astana, all these sort of clubs. 100% we should expect to win those games. The exact same way that Barcelona, Madrid, Liverpool, Munich, PSG, all should expect to beat us. The laws of football means that is not always the case, but the fans most certainly should and do expect those wins.
    3) see above, football happens. Does not mean we shouldn't expect to beat them. No one is claiming a * given right, nor taking them for granted (can be argued the manager did take it for granted with how he set us up), but we should always expect to beat these teams.
    4) are you talking about this seasons results or past decades results of testing these ideas - and I assume you are meaning the idea of being expected to win these games.
    5) Of course, think we all would love that. Be it going back to the romantic idea of the Lions or simply Celtic being able to develop a consistent standard of home grown player. Many issues affect this, no more than the lack of a reserve/dev league. but the club itself does need to take a more proactive route in to getting our talent in to the first team. a generation of 17-19 year olds are chapping on the door, but with no game time other than glorified friendlies at a * poor level. Totally different and very well merited chat though.
    6) Again, 100% agree. Porto and Ajax are miles ahead of us these days, but it wasn't that long ago we was on a par with them. We have fallen from grace in that respect and that is more on US rather than them catapulting away from us. But as we bring up those two teams (as an example, many more in the same level such as Lyon, PSV, Benfica, Lazio, Gladbach etc) It is humiliating to have been at that level, but within the last 15 years we have progressively dropped to the level of people accepting getting beat by Cluj, Ferencvaros and the likes.

    The expectation is that we should be at the level of Ajax etc, the reality is t hat Cluj can beat us. That is a disgrace to be honest, and there is more than one man(Lennon) to blame for that.


    I still do not see what is so bad about expecting to beat these teams. It's not an entitlement issue, it is basic football logic.
    The same way we are expected to beat Clyde or Airdrie....it doesn't always happen... but we are still expected.

    Football happens though, these teams can get the better of us - same as we can get the better of Barcelona in 2012. No one is arguing against the nature of football. But once it becomes a regular occurrence and a prolonged period of the football being at a very poor level, questions must be asked.

    We can all be upset at Ferencvaros beating us, we can dust ourselves down and analyse the game and move on. However after we look in to the reasons for that defeat, it is not attributed to just an off game, a one off issue. It was building for weeks to that game and since that game has continued. Players out of position - when natural and capable players are available. Players regularly deemed not match fit, for prolonged weeks - questions need asked on that. Out of form players being continually selected - again while others are actually available. Poor substitutions and general game management. Lack of Squad management, be it first team players as previously mentioned, or the lack of younger players being given a shot - Welsh taking till he is 20 before he gets a run and it is only due to others being out. This, all of this, is on the manager and why many many fans are annoyed and questioning the man.

    But I do hope I have managed to address all your points, while still not knowing why you are the one bringing up 4 decades ago (I apologies if it was mentioned previously to the original post I quoted on this subject from yourself).
     
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  13. Random Review

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    Why this so hard to understand? For one thing, there is a huge difference between "over 40 years" and "40 years ago", so stop treating them as synonymous FFS. It's a really dishonest way to make my argument look ridiculous.

    It's a really simple point: the only thing we can actually test this idea that we should expect to beat sides like Ferencvaros against is how we have done in this kind of games (please note that I didn't say "how we did"). If we measure the idea against this history, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
    How we have actually done against this kind of side is the reality.

    Passing over the fact that you changed "over 40 years" to "40 years ago" yet again, I would point you to the reality that we nevertheless haven't done all that well against these sides. This is the reality.
    It sounds impressive to say Ferencvaros haven't qualified in 6 years, but unlike us, they don't enter every year. According to Wiki, this is 6th time lucky for them in that period. If you include the entire current format of the CL by including the previous season, it's 2 from 7 (which starts to look not dissimilar to our own record).
     
  14. Random Review

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    Is English your first language? "Over 40 years" does not mean the same as "40 years ago".
     
  15. buchanbhoy

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    Get help in Lenny before it costs you your job and stop being so stubborn.
     
  16. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    Cheers for that mate.
     
  17. Random Review

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    You're not listening here. Actual reality shows that we have translated more money into consistently beating the likes of Clyde and Manchester City and PSG have translated more money into beating clubs like us. Actual reality equally shows that we haven't consistently translated more money into consistently beating European clubs.

    This is unarguable fact. The reasons for this inability take us into the realm of speculation and an interesting topic for another thread, but whatever they are, they long predate Neil Lennon.
     
  18. Random Review

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    Well it's really disrespectful to twist someone's words like that. Usually, when I do it, I acknowledge my mistake and apologise.
    You, however, simply repeated the misquote in your next post.
     
  19. Peej Gold Member Gold Member

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    So is your argument that the club has regressed over time and there is bigger issues for this overall regression outwith the control of the current manager?

    If so, we all agree with this 100% and we all expect ( ;) ) us to do better than that.

    HOWEVER, forget all of that as none of us are arguing what the club should be at, we are debating the merits of the manager on this season and this season alone.
    Simple question - are you happy with the 17 games we have played so far this season? (and by happy I mean the performances, management, results, everything that is meant to entertain us, the fans)
     
  20. Random Review

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    My argument is that there are structural issues that predate Neil Lennon. I think we should be doing something about that, because we should be doing better; but I also think it's desperately unfair to pin that on Neil Lennon as some people have been doing.

    This summer was his first window where he was backed. Presumably it is Congerton's fault that we couldn't do better last summer- rebuilding a scouting network takes time. I'm quite excited, i think we're going to have a stronger team this year (except for the goalkeeping position).

    It takes time to gel, Ajeti wasn't fit when he arrived (still isn't 100% fit now due to that injury) and we've been hit by an extraordinary series of injuries and Covid call offs that has devastated our forward line and defence and weakened our midfield.

    What I'm saying is 100% testable. If I am right, then we are going to start playing really well soon as some players come back and others regain fitness. I think you can already see that starting to happen. Let's revisit this in a month. If I am right (and if there aren't more Covid complications/injuries), we will be playing well by the end of this month. If we aren't, I'll admit I was wrong (assuming, as I said, we don't get hit by even more of these call offs/injuries).

    Last week aside (and I do think the buck stops with Lenny for those 3 very sloppy goals), we've been grinding out results domestically in spite of the problems. Thankfully, we haven't let Rangers build a significant lead during what will probably be the weakest period we'll have all season.
     
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